should it be illegal... (potentially damaging levels of sound)

[Gromit]

Tough shit really. I think workers should get them, but punters should have to take their own precautions.

All it comes down to is more nannying that ensures that people don't have to actually think for themselves...load of bollocks...

Or you could play music at a level where no one requires PPE.

 

[kyser_soze]

Dance music sounds shite when it's quiet tho...in fact most music sounds better LOUD...

 

[teuchter]

Setting aside the whole "nanny state" question, isn't it actually kind of stupid for places to have the sound so high that you are forced to listen to the music through ear plugs? You're left with the choice of either hearing the music distorted through half an inch of foam, or distorted through hearing loss later in life. That doesn't seem like a very good choice to me. Also, often when the sound is turned up too high it's an attempt to compensate for a crap sound system. For me, one of the marks of a good club sound system is that it will sound clear and powerful without being uncomfortable and you will probably also be able to have a conversation with someone next to you without destroying your vocal chords in the process. Hifi nuts will say much the same about domestic systems.

 

[kyser_soze]

For me, one of the marks of a good club sound system is that it will sound clear and powerful without being uncomfortable and you will probably also be able to have a conversation with someone next to you without destroying your vocal chords in the process. Hifi nuts will say much the same about domestic systems.

Very true. The systems at clubs like MoS & Fabric are good for this loud with low distortion and all that...still, I like to 'feel' the bassline, yanawhaimeanlike?

 

[Gromit]

Dance music sounds shite when it's quiet tho...in fact most music sounds better LOUD...

and gluttony tastes much better than eating sensibly so let all be fat and deaf together and fuck our health for the sake of our short term pleasure being a little more pleasurable. Yay rebelious us!

 

[kyser_soze]

Actually, gluttony DOESN'T taste better IMV, but there are some specific genres of music - dub, D&B - for which the physical, visceral feeling of ultra deep bass changes the music from amazing to a (for me) physically and emotionally transcendent experience...

 

[Gromit]

Cut your hair hippeh!

 

[kyser_soze]

If I did that I'd be even more bald than I am already!

OK, the trancendence bit was pushing it, but I've been the highest I've ever been when on MDMA and in front of the bass speakers at University of Dub at the Brixton Rec...the feeling of sound passing throug your whole body is, for me, an immensely uplifting experience...

 

[teuchter]

Very true. The systems at clubs like MoS & Fabric are good for this loud with low distortion and all that...still, I like to 'feel' the bassline, yanawhaimeanlike?

Yes indeed I know what you mean.
I would be interested to know whether ear damage is caused equally by all frequencies. Because subjectively, to me at least, it is the higher frequencies that feel like they are doing the damage.
I think one of the reasons poor sound systems tend to get cranked up too much is that they can't really deliver the bassline properly, making them sound weak. So they are turned up to compensate, raising the levels of all the higher frequencies disproportionatly, and adding in a whole load of distortion too.
Perhaps introducing a legal limit on sound levels would encourage more places to invest in proper sound systems.......

 

[geminisnake]

Cut your hair hippeh!

Sorry ky but that made me laugh

 

[gentlegreen]

Bass is one thing, it's the raft of high frequency distortion that does the damage - though the last time I stepped out, the bass actually made me feel physically sick.

I was at the St. Paul's carnival a few years back and found my threshold altered standing well back from a D&B P.A. - even though it didn't sound overly loud.

 

[kyser_soze]

Ah man, that's when bass is the best

 

[Chairman Meow]

Ah man, that's when bass is the best

Too right.

 

[gentlegreen]

Must be an age thing then

At Lakota you only got bass downstairs and had to go upstairs to work out what sort of music it was .

 

[Herbsman.]

Tough shit really. I think workers should get them, but punters should have to take their own precautions.

All it comes down to is more nannying that ensures that people don't have to actually think for themselves...load of bollocks...

But this thread is nothing to do with 'nannying' it's about ensuring that protection is available if required.

 

[tangerinedream]

But this thread is nothing to do with 'nannying' it's about ensuring that protection is available if required.

I agree, clubs and venues sell loads of stuff you don't really need (like them 'toothpaste in a ball chewable toothbrush' things so I don't see why they can't have a little pot of earplugs behind the bar or like I said earlier, in a vending machine - I'm not sure I'd want it to be compulsory but it's one of those things that I reckon would just catch on cos there's been a few times where I've thought - bugger, I should have bought my earplugs... I like the visual aspects of music, I love being at the front, watching the way the band interacts and the performance they give, but ofen that means being right next to a fuck off big speaker stack. Yeah - I should remember myself, but like anything else - I sometimes forget, specially when I go to a gig straight from work.

 

[Herbsman.]

Yeah - I should remember myself, but like anything else - I sometimes forget, specially when I go to a gig straight from work.

There are a lot of situations where you could just end up going to a gig without earplugs.

Like if you lost the only pair you own, or you got invited to a gig at the last minute but don't carry 'plugs with you all the time, there are no shops open that sell them etc.

It's not as if they're readily available, you can't just nip round to the nearest 24 hour garage and pick up a pair. I've never seen them anywhere other than pharmacists and places like superdrug/boots

 

[Gmart]

Shouldn't clubs and pubs keep the decibels down to a level where it doesn't cause harm?

Isn't it part of the duty of care for their customers?

Of course music sounds better loud, but I regret that now years later, with bad hearing due to walkmans on permanent full!!

 

[Gromit]

If you live near Birmingham register with these people for your free expo pass and turn up once a year to sample their freebies.

All the earplugs you can eat. I used to come back with bags full for my GF, who has trouble sleeping.

Unfortunately the freebies aren't as good as they used to be. i used to get all sorts of stuff not just earplugs. Glowsticks one year, I've seen them at raves too.

 

[8ball]

I always carry earplugs - I have mutant dog-like hearing and the volume in a lot of places just hurts. I have to get drunk enough to kill any pain if I find myself at a gig without the earplugs. More of the decent places that play gigs seem to have limiters these days.

I like the chewable toothbrushes - they can be quite handy, and emergency earplug dispensers would be a great idea.

I think it's really a minority who really enjoy the higher frequencies at really loud levels (I'm not exactly a pussy in this regard, I used to play in a punk band without ear plugs). Maybe these people are just deaf already.

I agree with teuchter that if you know what you're doing you can get a really powerful sound without massively damaging amplitudes at the higher frequencies.

 

[Herbsman.]

If you live near Birmingham register with these people for your free expo pass and turn up once a year to sample their freebies.

All the earplugs you can eat. I used to come back with bags full for my GF, who has trouble sleeping.

Unfortunately the freebies aren't as good as they used to be. i used to get all sorts of stuff not just earplugs. Glowsticks one year, I've seen them at raves too.

Which people? Have you forgotten to put a link in?

 

[Gromit]

Which people? Have you forgotten to put a link in?

I did. Fixed.

 

[MikeMcc]

It was bad enough in the factories I worked in when I was younger - in spite of hearing protection being provided - seeing grown men not wearing them in 96dba-plus environments , but I am fairly confident that in all the raves I went to in the 90s I was the only person ever to wear earplugs.

80dB(A) is the amount anyone is 'allowed' to be exposed to for 8 hours without having to take precautions. For every 3dB above that reduce the exposure time by half. So at 96dB(A) the max exposure time is only 15min! There are limits on max intensity before damage occurs from any exposure, but I can't remeber what that limit is.

 

[Herbsman.]

I did. Fixed.

Cheers.
I remember seeing a link on here, mail order safety supplies, boxes of foam earplugs, cheap. I think they did re-usable plugs as well. Gonna have a look now. I aint paying £2.50 for three pairs in Superdrug when I could get at least 30 pairs for a tenner (although if I knew I was going out at the time I would have coughed up, its a reasonable price in an emergency).

 

[gentlegreen]

80dB(A) is the amount anyone is 'allowed' to be exposed to for 8 hours without having to take precautions. For every 3dB above that reduce the exposure time by half. So at 96dB(A) the max exposure time is only 15min! There are limits on max intensity before damage occurs from any exposure, but I can't remeber what that limit is.

I may be exaggerating by a few dbs, but the worst example was the mould-shaking room on the Frys Chocolate Cream line.

Incidentally, I accidentally caught a bit of footage of an American Tank factory yesterday - they were craning a 14 tonne turret across the factory with not a hard hat in sight - though I suppose it was a bit academic really ....

 

[free spirit]

Perhaps introducing a legal limit on sound levels would encourage more places to invest in proper sound systems.......

please god no.

It's one thing to have legislation meaning that venues playing music at potentially dangerous levels should have to provide earplugs on request, another thing entirely to ban loud music altogether.

it'd be counterproductive anyway IMO, as clubs would react by installing crude limiters in an attempt to keep the music below the legal limit, DJ's and bands would then end up responding to audiences shouting at them to turn it up, by pushing the mixer to it's limits, and you'd just end up with way higher levels of distortion in clubs.

Distorting systems being the ones that cause the most damage, therefore IMHO limiting soundlevels across the board would be more likely to increase damge to hearing than decrease it.

 

[teuchter]

please god no.

It's one thing to have legislation meaning that venues playing music at potentially dangerous levels should have to provide earplugs on request, another thing entirely to ban loud music altogether.

it'd be counterproductive anyway IMO, as clubs would react by installing crude limiters in an attempt to keep the music below the legal limit, DJ's and bands would then end up responding to audiences shouting at them to turn it up, by pushing the mixer to it's limits, and you'd just end up with way higher levels of distortion in clubs.

Distorting systems being the ones that cause the most damage, therefore IMHO limiting soundlevels across the board would be more likely to increase damge to hearing than decrease it.

Let's just ban distortion all together instead then...