Should Israel have been given to the Jews?
- Thread starter zenie
- Start date
Spion
I hear ya
zenie said:
Some quotes:
“The Arabs will have to go, but one needs an opportune moment for making it happen, such as a war.” Ben Gurion (leader of the Jewish community in 1948 and later PM), diary, 12 July 1937
“Transfer does not serve only one aim – to reduce the Arab population. It also serves a second purpose by no means less important, which is: to evict land now cultivated by Arabs and to free it for Jewish settlement . . . The only solution is to transfer the Arabs from here to neighbouring countries. Not a single village or single tribe should be let off.” 1940, Yossef Weitz (member of Ben Gurion’s Consultancy, head of settlement dept of JNF and formerly involved in compiling the Village Files), My Diary, vol 2 , p181
It'd take too long to list but more than 530 Arab villages were cleared and several city quarters. As part of this some massacres (estd 30+) took place. This is what a later Israeli PM said about one of them, at Deir Yassin, and its effect
Menachem Begin said (in The Revolt, p164, 1977), “Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe the wild tales of ‘Irgun butchery’ were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrolled stampede. Of the almost 800,000 who lived on the present territory of the State of Israel, only some 165,000 are still there. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.”
By March the jewish armed forces (the Haganah) had orders to expel Arabs as part of their operations
The Haganah's Plan D, 10 Mar 1948:
"These operations can be carried out in the following manner: either by destroying villages (by setting fire to them, by blowing them up, and by planting mines in their debris) and especially of those populations centres which are difficult to control continuously; or by mounting combing and control operations according to the following guidellines: encirclement of the villages, conducting a search inside them. In case of resistance, the armed forces must be wiped out and the population expelled outside the borders of the state."
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
why is it any more dangerous that the beta zion which was created in russia before stalin wiped it out... which was also suggested as being the place to rehome european Jewry after the second world war... It wasn't just a case of the land round Jerusalm well make a state there... (although the actual lines drawn up were that arbitary...)jonH said:
Zenie are you being totally serious?
I mean you cannot really be oblivious to this situation consdierign you will have grown up with it along with most other people...
GarfieldLeChat said:
so it's wrong for someone to ask questions about something they feel they don't know about now?
patronising twat.
i didn't say it was more dangerous, but suggesting the jews have a state in alaska is a bit like saying the Romani people have a state in Madagascar.GarfieldLeChat said:
Both the Jews and the Romani have Eurasian origins and should be allowed to keep them, I'm not into ethnic cleansing
jonH said:
It was a reference to a very real suggestion at the time, that was put before Congress. Dumbass
jonH said:
i was making a reference to something, not agreeing with it.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
yes that's what i said entriely you've got be bang to rights...Dubversion said:
asumptive twat...
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
patronising twat...Dubversion said:
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
but techncially, and without dissapearing down a rabbit hole you'd have to conceed that moving people of shared and common identity from europe and moving them to the middle east would be ethnic cleansing, ie the systematic remvoeal of a group of people to displace or remove their cultral genus from the given area/state...jonH said:
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
I was merely questioning or really astonished that in all the time Zenie has been both here on the boards and around members of the boards she wasn't more clued up. That's all, it's not a particularlly snide comment to make or patronising either for that matter. Unless of course you are dubversion who'll see snide in my comments if i offered him cake...jonH said:are you being serious, it's hard to tell
the Jews are a Semitic people like the Arabs, their culture and language centres around the middle east.GarfieldLeChat said:
I am not suggesting that the State of Israel is anyway desirable but if they did have a state surely it should be somewhere between the Euphrates and the Nile;
imo we should wait until the return of the Messiah
and then do it big timejonH said:
shall we take a random sample of your usual standard of contribution to serious threads, jonh? like your comments on the killing badgers thread etc?
you're a hypocrite as well as an inane cunt, then.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
surely at whcih point then technically at the return of the Messiah then there'd be no need for such trivaialities as statehood or nations...jonH said:the Jews are a Semitic people like the Arabs, their culture and language centres around the middle east.
I am not suggesting that the State of Israel is anyway desirable but if they did have a state surely it should be somewhere between the Euphrates and the Nile;
imo we should wait until the return of the Messiah
but yes techncially there can be no isreal until such time as such the tirbes of david were all concentraited in philistine (palestine) so there is no more an inherent rigth or claim to it by anyone of these tribes other than the ones who provided the name to the region ... 
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
The Jews were a Semitic people, once. Now we're hybrids. Once the Diaspora occurred we intermixed with just about every people and culture we came across. Very few Jews are "pure" Semites, just as, to a lesser degree because of their insularity, Arabs aren't.jonH said:
As for language and culture, the state of Israel's language is modern Hebrew, a synthesis of G-d alone knows how many borrowings, and more "middle eastern" by those borrowings than anything else. Jews, however, tend to speak the language of their host country, and then possibly one of the culture tongues such as Yiddish or Ladino. Jewish culture is as little centred around the middle east as it's languages are, except insofar as religious observance is concerned, but bear in mind that one doesn't have to be observant to be a Jew.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
can we have just one thread you particiapte in which isn't about your elephantine ego please, this threads topic of discussion is should isreal have been given to the jews. not Dubversion yet again feels some anynomous person on the internet has trodden on his cock.Dubversion said:
do feel free to stay on topic at any point.
(btw, for refference, this is me being patronising. I do hope you can gauge the difference in my response and it isn't to highbrow for you to comprehend)
fuck off and die, garf, there's a good lad.
and jonh - the threads about killing badgers and your STERLING contributions to blagsta's thread about identity in theory this morning should serve as perfect examples of your willingness to debate.
dick
and jonh - the threads about killing badgers and your STERLING contributions to blagsta's thread about identity in theory this morning should serve as perfect examples of your willingness to debate.
dick
samskara is valid hindu philosophy and eating less beef and milk products would reduce the risk of cattle spreading TB, you are a sad and angry little manDubversion said:
this might help you but i doubt it
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
ViolentPanda said:
You still are semitic, since 'semitic' refers to a language group, not a race or ethnicity.
http://uk.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761569639/Semitic_Languages.html
jonH said:
you've gone back and edited your initial response.
so that makes you a devious cunt on top of everything else
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
zenie said:
It's open to interpretation.
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