Should I get a Mac?

[Orang Utan]

I'm confuesd now - I don't know what all this Intel/OS-X stuff means.


(BTW none of the producers I know make music on a PC - they would laugh if you suggested it)

 

[trashpony]

I'm confuesd now - I don't know what all this Intel/OS-X stuff means.

It just means using the operating system which comes with a mac vs the standard one that most PCs use (Windows).

If you've never used a mac before, I'd go and have a go on someone else's to try it out. The way you open and close files and move things around is quite different and the shortcut keys and mouse work differently too.

You may just find it's a complete pain to learn a whole new way of doing things. Whereas there were big differences between the programmes that would work on PCs/Macs a while back, there's very little in it nowadays (used to be that you couldn't get Quark or Photoshop for PC!). Any preference that people have tends to be mainly historical in my view

This is all from a non-techie perspective

 

[editor]

(BTW none of the producers I know make music on a PC - they would laugh if you suggested it)

Lots of musicians/studios manage to make music just fine on PCs, so maybe your mates are a bit, well, OS prejudiced?

 

[j26]

I'm confuesd now - I don't know what all this Intel/OS-X stuff means.


(BTW none of the producers I know make music on a PC - they would laugh if you suggested it)

Apple are in the process of changing from one type of chip (G4) to another (Intel). The new one seems to be much faster, and has other features, like the fact that if you need to you can run Windows in it.
The iBook is the older chip (G4), and the mac rumor sites are going wild at the moment with rumors that the new iBook (Intel) is actually gone into production and will be anounced soon.

OS X is the Apple operating system - like Windows only far better*

When you get a mac you also get iLife which is a suite of applications for pictures, video, web publishing and music.






*The above is a purely personal comment. the utterer will not be held responsible for any errors, omissions or downright lies howsoever occurring.

 

[editor]

The iBook is the older chip (G4), and the mac rumor sites are going wild at the moment with rumors that the new iBook (Intel) is actually gone into production and will be anounced soon. [/SIZE]

Bear in mind you may be in for a long wait if you want Photoshop to run on it at a decent speed.

All this "better than" stuff is dead childish, btw, and doesn't really help the discussion.

Both operating systems have their plus points and minus points: I prefer Windows, but that doesn't mean I think it's inherently better than a Mac - I just prefer it for my needs, that's all.

Each to their own, innit?!

 

[j26]

Bear in mind you may be in for a long wait if you want Photoshop to run on it at a decent speed.

Internet
Music

I don't think Photoshop is a high priority, but yes you are right, some apps will be slower initially until the developers recode them. But for OT I think the iLife suite will be enough to start off with.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

For stuff like internet and music, even a little word and powerpoint then you might as well get either an ibook if you can get one cheap, or a cheap PC (much cheaper). The slowest currently sold laptop is more than enough to do them, just chuck in another 256 or 512 of RAM.

 

[grosun]

There's millions of people using PC laptops for music and I somehow suspect they're not all grimacing through endless 'buzzings and clickings.'

I certainly have never heard this supposed racket going on.

Oh, they're not *that* loud, but I've certainly observed some background noise whenever the hd's been working on all the pc laptops I've used (Dell & IBM), whereas I don't hear anything extraneous on my powerbook. If yours is fine, that's all good

 

[rocketman]

Lots of musicians/studios manage to make music just fine on PCs, so maybe your mates are a bit, well, OS prejudiced?

Hey ed, I don't know many musos/producers who use PCs (though they are widely used by Web designers - mainly in order to support dodgy legacy Internet Explorer code that Microsoft ended up being declared a monopolist for creating), but I can reel off a list of Mac-using musicians/DJs, lets see: Paul McCartney, Dave Gilmour, Banco de Gaia, DJ DangerMouse, Pete Tong, Freelance Hellraiser, Athlete, and many, many more.

In this case - for a bloke who wants music, Internet and probably takes some snaps, you get more for your money. No need for upgrade cards of any kind, you get a good OS (that's easy to learn), you also get iLife, which includes applications for editing movies and pictures - even GarageBand, which you can use to make music (a Windows version of which Microsoft is only just beggining to develop). You also get an email application, browser and other stuff,

On the topic of Photoshop, if you are doing advanced rendering or working with RAW files, sure it'll be slower: but if you are simply resizing images or doing simple editing tasks it shouldn't be too noticeable.

For you Orang, Apple is migrating from its previously-used processors to new processors from Intel. If you wait for the Intel iBook (which should be announced this month, and will be called a MacBook), you will be in the current generation of Mac. You will also be able to install Windows XP on your machine, so you'll get the best of both worlds.

For example: Photoshop runs faster on a Mac running XP than it does on competitively-priced PCs.

You can't lose. Millions do it. If you don't want your home set-up to replicate the 9-5 (presumably) hell you go through at work, then dump Windows and get a true bi-OS machine - one that runs Mac OS X and Windows too.

(For me, I hate the Start menu, and really really hate all those Microsoft 'Wizards', they are the bane of my life. And the last time I hooked my PC to the Internet in order to update the security software, it managed to get clobbered with so many viruses in the interim that it was out of action for a week. I'd never go online with a Windows PC - all the arguments about cost are always under-ridden with the suggestion that you can buy virus protection software for the PC - but these machines are so buggy that such protection should be added to the price you expect to pay for them)

Rant over. Returns to box.

 

[Orang Utan]

Lots of musicians/studios manage to make music just fine on PCs, so maybe your mates are a bit, well, OS prejudiced?

Possibly, but I think Macs, particularly Power Books are standard in electronic music - never seen a PC in a 'live' set.

 

[Orang Utan]

I don't think Photoshop is a high priority

Actually, I can't wait to have fun with it - I'm gonna get up to all sorts of mischief

 

[Orang Utan]

If you think it's worth the extra expense of the machine and the new software, go for it!

I won't have to pay for any software luckily!

 

[rocketman]

Well, anyone who is looking at a Mac and is prepared to stick with old PowerPC processors can save a little money, there's this company called Added Dimension, who sell ex-demo kit for Apple at a slight discount., (Personally I don't think the discount is attractive enough - all these prices are ex-VAT - but I'm not everyone, so someone may find this useful).
These prices and products are from a stock list at the end of March, and so this info could have changed or be out of date. But if you are shopping around for a Mac and happy to stick with older processors, then this info at least offers you a cheaper (but not cheap enuff, IMHO) option:

Mobile Computing
Apple PowerBook G4 1.67Ghz 15"TFT 512MB/80GB Superdrive - £806.30
Apple Powerbk G4 1.5Ghz 12" TFT 512MB/80GB/Superdrive - £816.34
Apple Powerbook G4 15"/1.67Ghz/512MB/80GB/SD/AP/Bluetooth - £849.00
Apple PowerBook 17" 1.67Ghz/512MB/120/SDrive/Air/BT £1,200.41
Contact Danny on 0118 945 8612

For info only, not spam, just lots of people don't know about this.

 

[cybertect]

On the topic of Photoshop, if you are doing advanced rendering or working with RAW files

My 1.67 MHz PowerBook G4 (with 1 GB RAM) works well enough for processing RAW files from my Canon 300D. Granted it ain't quite as nippy as my dual 2.3 desktop G5, but it's very far from unusable.

A more important issue when doing Photo PP on a laptop these days is the colour accuracy of the screen, TBH.

 

[rocketman]

My 1.67 MHz PowerBook G4 (with 1 GB RAM) works well enough for processing RAW files from my Canon 300D. Granted it ain't quite as nippy as my dual 2.3 desktop G5, but it's very far from unusable.

A more important issue when doing Photo PP on a laptop these days is the colour accuracy of the screen, TBH.

Sorry I failed to make myself clear, I was observing Photoshop performance on Intel Macs.

 

[Dask]

I'd hold on for about 4 weeks before you buy anything and wait for the new iBook to come out.

 

[audiotech]

Hey ed, I don't know many musos/producers who use PCs (though they are widely used by Web designers - mainly in order to support dodgy legacy Internet Explorer code that Microsoft ended up being declared a monopolist for creating), but I can reel off a list of Mac-using musicians/DJs, lets see: Paul McCartney, Dave Gilmour, Banco de Gaia, DJ DangerMouse, Pete Tong, Freelance Hellraiser, Athlete, and many, many more.

You're just exhibiting your bias towards Macs. Macs were the No 1 choice for music production at one-time, but not anymore.

One of the most common questions that people ask is, “Should I get a Mac or a PC?” These days, the answer isn't as simple as it once was. If you ask 10 different people the same question, you're bound to get 10 different answers, especially in this context. So, ultimately, it depends.

An article here gives more info.

http://tweakheadz.com/Mac_vs_Pc_DAWS.htm

 

[rocketman]

You're just exhibiting your bias towards Macs. Macs were the No 1 choice for music production at one-time, but not anymore.
An article here gives more info.
http://tweakheadz.com/Mac_vs_Pc_DAWS.htm

Happy to admit to a Mac bias, but not rabid about it - I'm just able to help people with Mac problems, so can offer good advice on that platform.
Thing is MC5, while things are always changing, I know lots of musicians/DJs and I actually can't name a single one who uses a PC, but can name loads who use a Mac. So purely in terms of my personal experience, what I have seen/hear/know just doesn't tally with your claim. Having said that, I seem to foggily recall that Coldcut use PCs.
Also having said that, I do think some PCs get used in studios for specific tasks - computers to analyse beat patterns, for example, as those machines are only ever going to be used for one specific purpose, so you don't need the flexibility of a Mac. In those cases it's just a cheap option to get the job done.
Again though, what I hear is that for the actual creative use of making music, Macs account for a good 50 per cent of the music market, and if you take into account those single-purpose PCs, then the market share among leading-edge creatives remains mainly Mac. Given that Apple also owns Logic, it makes sense.
Anyway, I don't want to come across as some mouth-foaming Mac evangelist - I admit it's my industry and I know it - but I would be keen for firm information to back-up or oppose my position. So in this case, which bands/musicans/DJs use Macs, and which use PCs?
Got any names, anyone?

Edited to add: MC5's recommended article on music production is well worth a read to anyone interested in that, as it intelligently describes the pros and cons of both platforms (and recommends professionals invest in both platforms).

 

[editor]

Possibly, but I think Macs, particularly Power Books are standard in electronic music - never seen a PC in a 'live' set.

My mate has a Windows set up in his professional studio - here he is!

...and I've certainly seen live acts using PCs at gigs...

However, the predominance of Windows machine sales was inescapable, and Digidesign ultimately released a Windows version of Pro Tools. In its earliest versions there were significant differences in compatibility, features and performance between it and the Mac version.

However, Pro Tools development for both platforms evolved and has reached an equal degree of sophistication. The current Pro Tools 6.4 (HD or LE) offers equal feature sets and performance on all supported Macs and Windows machines.
http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/pro-tools/buying-guide.php

 

[DG55]

And the last time I hooked my PC to the Internet in order to update the security software, it managed to get clobbered with so many viruses in the interim that it was out of action for a week. I'd never go online with a Windows PC - all the arguments about cost are always under-ridden with the suggestion that you can buy virus protection software for the PC - but these machines are so buggy that such protection should be added to the price you expect to pay for them)

Rant over. Returns to box.

Theres no way that could happen. None of this is true at all. Typical mac zealoutry.

And you can get very decent anti-virus and firewall software that is free. XP comes with a firewall, MS has one of the best free anti-spyware programs, and AVG free is easily enough.

I notice you mention wizards. You only hate them because your quite obviously a power user. Wizards were created so that the average joe could actually have a chance in hell of knowing what they are doing. Its a good argument as to why macs may not be user friendly.

 

[editor]

And the last time I hooked my PC to the Internet in order to update the security software, it managed to get clobbered with so many viruses in the interim that it was out of action for a week.

You must have been exceptionally unlucky and - to be honest - more than a little careless/foolish to manage that.

XP comes with a firewall switched on by default and it takes minutes to download a highly capable third-party virus checker (many PCs come with anti-virus software installed anyway). For extra security, it's also easy to install the Zone Alarm firewall and an anti spyware app.

All these programs are FREE!

Once they're installed and set to auto-update, there's absolutely no reason at all why anyone should worry about getting a virus.

 

[ProgBreakz]

You get the value of apple hardware with the reliability of windows. "

er... Isn't that the wrong way round?


PB

 

[ProgBreakz]

My mate has a Windows set up in his professional studio - here he is!

Wait... that looks suspiciously like an old G4 style Apple Pro keyboard!


PB

 

[rocketman]

S'funny, really. I remember not so many years ago when Mac users would get all rabid about fighting for their platform (like plastic and electronics really mattered). These days I'm seeing the same arguments chucked around by Windows people, heartily fighting for that platform.
Things change. Things stay the same.
I don't really care.

 

[rocketman]

You must have been exceptionally unlucky and - to be honest - more than a little careless/foolish to manage that.

Yeah, I'm stupid with Windows.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

S'funny, really. I remember not so many years ago when Mac users would get all rabid about fighting for their platform (like plastic and electronics really mattered). These days I'm seeing the same arguments chucked around by Windows people, heartily fighting for that platform.
Things change. Things stay the same.
I don't really care.

Interesting viewpoint. In my experience (everything from web designers, music makers, video editors over to 3d modelling types, office workers) Mac owners tend to be the most smug and zealot types compared to PC owners...but hey lets not get into a Mac vs PC fanboy session eh!

 

[DG55]

but hey lets not get into a Mac vs PC fanboy session eh!

Woops. Already did.

 

[jæd]

XP comes with a firewall switched on by default

Only after SP2...

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Woops. Already did.

Not really, just expressing an experience. No idea why but over the years all of the people into their machines (becuase lets face it the average user thinks we're all sad cunts!) Mac users, ime, have been real smug fuckers and very defensive about their platform. PC users have been (apart from a notable couple) been fairly down to earth "I like tinkering with machines and you can't really do that with Macs" types.

 

[jæd]

S'funny, really. I remember not so many years ago when Mac users would get all rabid about fighting for their platform (like plastic and electronics really mattered). These days I'm seeing the same arguments chucked around by Windows people, heartily fighting for that platform.
Things change. Things stay the same.
I don't really care.

Yah... I don't care so much now. Either (a) I reccommend Windows, and suggest that now, every time I will charge a nice bottle of red every time I fix the virus/malware problem or (b) you get a Mac. My evenings are nice either way.