Should Foreign Prisoners be punished twice?

[Rollem]

On the other hand, I'm not convinced that it is always the best or fairest way to treat people who have come here.

but is coming to a country and commiting a serious[/] crime, a fair act in itself?

its tricky. to say a foreign national who gets jailed for petty theft should be deported seems harsh to say the least. on the other hand, i'm all for deporting rapist, murders etc

its about scales of justice as well as punishment.

 

[scarecrow]

And it works both ways - we get glitter back.....

Along with many other less high-profile undesirables.

 

[Fruitloop]

Erm no. Deporting criminals After they've finished seving time for a serious offence is legal justice. The mob justice started when the legal justice failed.

Dangerous precedent, IMO. So if the law decides they're innocent, but the mob decides not, that's still justice?

 

[lunatrick]

true......

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Why not deport a person who's been convicted of a serrious crime (ie a firearms offense). If they are in danger of being executed in the country they come from then then it's still a matter for debate, but for those that come from nations where they aren't (ie the EU) i can't see much of a case.

Look at it the other way, because they commit a crime are they eligable for naturalisation?

 

[scarecrow]

Dangerous precedent, IMO. So if the law decides they're innocent, but the mob decides not, that's still justice?

Oh it's twisting the argument and placing words in mouth time. By 'Mob Justice' we are refering to the media are we not? The law didn't decide they were innocent as the people we are discussing have served time. Judges recommended that they be deported on release and the legal system failed to do so. The media informs us of such.

Hardly a witch hunt, is it?

 

[Fruitloop]

I'm not defending badger-boy Clarke at all, in fact I hate his expansive guts. What I don't like is the assumption that because they fucked up really badly it means that we are too soft, and should just deport all foreigners who break the law. It's a classic NL response; to introduce a load of new, harsher laws when the existing ones aren't being implemented properly anyway, purely in order to be seen to be doing something about a problem.

The media have one remit - to capture audience share. All other considerations of integrity, truthfulness etc come second to this overriding imperative. This being the case they can't possibly be trusted with any aspect of criminal justice, IMO.

 

[Lock&Light]

What I don't like is the assumption that because they fucked up really badly it means that we are too soft, and should just deport all foreigners who break the law.

That is NOT what is being proposed.

 

[Azrael]

So, if you're hear on asylum you can do what you want???

Erm, no, you just shouldn't be deported back to your death.

 

[Fruitloop]

It's certainly been suggested. I'd support deportation on release for rape, murder and GBH maybe, if there wasn't a valid asylum claim. Only maybe though, as if someone has served a life sentence for murder then you're potentially talking about a crime they committed a very long time ago, they might be old and past it by now etc etc.

The problem is with the current administration the chances of a proportionate response are vanishingly small.

 

[agricola]

But why would you commit an offence if you genuinely faced being executed upon your return to your own country? Surely it would just be easier to not commit crime and stay here, after all that - not committing crimes - is what most of the population manages to successfully do each day.

Besides, we have enough home-grown criminals.

 

[agricola]

It's certainly been suggested. I'd support deportation on release for rape, murder and GBH maybe, if there wasn't a valid asylum claim. Only maybe though, as if someone has served a life sentence for murder then you're potentially talking about a crime they committed a very long time ago, they might be old and past it by now etc etc.

The problem is with the current administration the chances of a proportionate response are vanishingly small.

What would a valid asylum claim for a rapist be?

 

[Fruitloop]

That they would be tortured to death if returned?

 

[Lock&Light]

That they would be tortured to death if returned?

Can't do the time, don't do the crime.

 

[agricola]

That they would be tortured to death if returned?

So why go out and rape someone?

"I know, Ill escape from this hellhole where my life is at risk, find a country which will accept me and protect me, then rape someone in it"

 

[scarecrow]

But why would you commit an offence if you genuinely faced being executed upon your return to your own country?

I gather that most people who commit crime do so on the basis that they will get away with it.

 

[Fruitloop]

Can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Don't be a dick. Being tortured to death isn't a fitting punishment for any crime in a civilised society.

 

[bluestreak]

So why go out and rape someone?

"I know, Ill escape from this hellhole where my life is at risk, find a country which will accept me and protect me, then rape someone in it"

because not all victims of persecution are automatically good people. some are grade A cunts. but if they're going to die when they go back, given that we're a country that doesn't have the death penalty and doesn't extradite to countries that do, should we then make exceptions. my answer is going to have to be no.

even scum like rapists

 

[Lock&Light]

Don't be a dick. Being tortured to death isn't a fitting punishment for any crime in a civilised society.

Rapists are unfitted for civilised society.

 

[lostexpectation]

But why would you commit an offence if you genuinely faced being executed upon your return to your own country? Surely it would just be easier to not commit crime and stay here, after all that - not committing crimes - is what most of the population manages to successfully do each day.

and so do most immigrants


It did seem to me that the new proposed is for more then just serious crime...

 

[bluestreak]

Don't be a dick. Being tortured to death isn't a fitting punishment for any crime in a civilised society.

unless you live in lock&light's world, where the iraq war was acceptable because we needed to protect people from things like torture. amongst other reasons.

 

[goldenecitrone]

That they would be tortured to death if returned?

Littlejohn suggested that they shouldn't have committed a crime in their home country if torture was a possibility. Like being Kurdish in Iraq or Turkey, or holding opposing religious views in Sudan. What an odious scumbag that man is.

 

[Lock&Light]

unless you live in lock&light's world, where the iraq war was acceptable because we needed to protect people from things like torture. amongst other reasons.

You are, again, trying to misrepresent me. Shame on you!

 

[Fruitloop]

Littlejohn suggested that they shouldn't have committed a crime in their home country if torture was a possibility. Like being Kurdish in Iraq or Turkey, or holding opposing religious views in Sudan. What an odious scumbag that man is.

Or opposing environmental destruction in Nigeria.

 

[agricola]

Littlejohn suggested that they shouldn't have committed a crime in their home country if torture was a possibility. Like being Kurdish in Iraq or Turkey, or holding opposing religious views in Sudan. What an odious scumbag that man is.

He is odious, but he is not wrong.

 

[Fruitloop]

How so?

 

[agricola]

For the reasons listed above.

If you abuse the country thats given you sanctuary by attacking or stealing from the people from that country then you not only harm them, but also everyone else who comes looking for help - as we see with the rise of the BNP and widespread anti-immigrant rhetoric generally.

 

[slaar]

Littlejohn is saying they shouldn't commit a crime in their own country. I.e should not stand up to the state, whatever kind of dictatorship the state is. What an extraordinary view to hold.

 

[agricola]

Littlejohn is saying they shouldn't commit a crime in their own country. I.e should not stand up to the state, whatever kind of dictatorship the state is. What an extraordinary view to hold.

sorry I assumed he was going on about people committing crimes over here when they faced torture in the countries they had left.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

intresting that the pro deportation camp which is near 100% of this thread is frankly thick as shit when it comes to accuratley assesing the level of poverty which imigrants are generally in particularlly those from war torn or oppressive states/ countries who are already criminalised by accident of birth in many cases or for being poor, are then forced into a situation where they cannot under current legislation work in things they are qualified in or for that matter on many occasions work at all, are given the paltry sum of £36 to live on per week and told they cannot by anything in cash, are for the first few months hearded together like cattle in detention centers little better than concetration camps, like yarls wood... where the staff beat and mistreat you on a regular if not daily basis....

and then there is outcry that these ungreatful wreatches dare to steal or sell drugs or commit other acts against 'real citizens' f this country when they are guests here... it's nothing short of pomposity of the highest order brought about by backwater colonialist attitudes and frankly a strong under current of racism...

so it's this threads conept, it's essence, that instituionalised state sacntions brutality to a group least able to defend itself is perfectly acceptable cos it's not as bad as they'd get at home... i wonder if it would be perfectly acceptable to finger children who were victims of child abuse as long as you didn't fuck them because after all they'd be getting better treatment than they do at home...

you bunch of totaly cock jockey right wing knee jerk guilable toss monkies...

everyone of you who supports the deportation argument...