Should Cyclists Be Required To Pass a Test?

[Biddlybee]

A voluntary free course from the council would be very useful for these new riders.

It's worth checking with councils... a lot of them do offer free training courses to both adults and children and if they don't then they're usually heavily subsidised (that's the case in London anyway).

 

[Dr_Herbz]

Would someone care to explain why most cyclists feel they should get everything for free, do motorists get free driving lessons?
Cycling is no more or less a privilege than riding a motorbike or driving a car on the roads so why should cyclists be treated any differently or be immune from the laws/rules governing other road users?

And just for the record... Yes, horse riders should also be subject to these rules/laws.

 

[Crispy]

Cycling should be promoted over driving in cities, for health, environmental and congestion reasons.

 

[editor]

Police don't stop every motorist to check if they have a license... do they?

Err, they certainly regularly perform stopchecks on motorists. Why would it be any different for cyclists under your proposed scheme?

As for the children issue... let me ask you... would you rather send children out on a bike in the knowledge that they had passed a test or would you rather they just leaned by their mistakes, possibly at the cost of their lives?

That's got nothing to do with them being forced to pass a test and being compelled produce a registration certificate when asked.

You still haven't answered my questions about the age issue. At what age would you be forcing children to have tests, and presumably anyone under that age would be legislated off the roads, yes - even if they live in a quiet little village, yes?

 

[editor]

Firstly, your opinion that this would be "pointless bureaucracy" is noted and duly dismissed.

Tell me the benefits please.

How much would it cost for the DVLA to add another HDD to their server in order to maintain a record of all registered cyclists?

Millions. At least. What's a HDD?

Would the cost of administration be outweighed by the cost of hospital treatment, lost man hours etc for cyclists who, as a result of their lack of road knowledge, are involved in accidents?

Have you a figure for all this 'hospital treatment' and weighed it so that it only includes cases where the cyclist's bad road skills were entirely to blame?

 

[Dr_Herbz]

Err, they certainly regularly perform stopchecks on motorists. Why would it be any different for cyclists under your proposed scheme?
That's got nothing to do with them being forced to pass a test and being compelled produce a registration certificate when asked.

You still haven't answered my questions about the age issue. At what age would you be forcing children to have tests, and presumably anyone under that age would be legislated off the roads, yes - even if they live in a quiet little village, yes?

Akshally, I did answer it HERE

Anyone who wishes to ride/drive on a public highway should be subject to a test to prove that they are competent to ride/drive on the road... regardless of age.

So what happens when the child decides to ride out of the village and onto the main roads?

 

[Dr_Herbz]

Tell me the benefits please.

Less accidents involving cyclists and cyclists being accountable for their fuckwitisms

What's a HDD?

A Hard Disk Drive

Have you a figure for all this 'hospital treatment' and weighed it so that it only includes cases where the cyclist's bad road skills were entirely to blame?

Absolutely not, so let's not try to outweigh the cost against the cost of hospitalisation etc, let's just slap an extra fiver on the cost of a new bike and have done with it.
There are around 2 million new bikes sold in the UK each year so this should more than cover the cost of administration.

 

[editor]

A Hard Disk Drive

So you think it's just a case of popping in a single hard drive into the DVLA's computer system and - da-daa! - you've a national cycling database! Bless. You don't really understand much about computers and databases, do you?

Absolutely not, so let's not try to outweigh the cost against the cost of hospitalisation etc, let's just slap an extra fiver on the cost of a new bike and have done with it.

Yep. You really don't know much about this do you? How much do you think administration costs would be for this idiotic scheme? Who's going to collect those fivers?

Less accidents involving cyclists and cyclists being accountable for their fuckwitisms

And how much does that add up to per annum compared to the costs of an enforced nationwide licensing system?

 

[Crispy]

I'm glad there's not much we don't agree on, ed.

 

[Dr_Herbz]

So you think it's just a case of popping in a single hard drive into the DVLA's computer system and - da-daa! - you've a national cycling database! Bless. You don't really understand much about computers and databases, do you?

This coming from a guy who doesn't know what a HDD is

Akshally, I probably know as much about databases as anyone here.
I build websites for a living and I have about 60 of my own websites and most of them are run from a database.

Yep. You really don't know much about this do you? How much do you think administration costs would be for this idiotic scheme? Who's going to collect those fivers?
And how much does that add up to per annum compared to the costs of an enforced nationwide licensing system?

Well, for the sake of ease, let's assume that there's already a tax on bikes (could I be right?) If this is the case, how hard would it be to slap another fiver on it?

Assuming there are approximately 2.5 million bikes sold in the UK each year, this would equate to about 12.5 million squid a year to cover the cost of the scheme. I'm sure this would come pretty close to covering the costs.
Failing that, why not do the unspeakable and actually charge cyclists for their licence... you know, like they do with other road users?

 

[editor]

This coming from a guy who doesn't know what a HDD is

I only asked because I couldn't believe you'd really be so stupid as to suggest that popping in a hard drive is all they'd need to do to implement a secure, nationwide database that could be looked up operatives in the field. Looks like I gave you more credit than you were due.

A new searchable, updateable database system covering millions of new entries would involve a phenomenal amount of work and expenditure.

I build websites for a living and I have about 60 of my own websites and most of them are run from a database.

So you just pop in a hard drive and off you go, yes?

 

[Dr_Herbz]

I only asked because I couldn't believe you'd really be so stupid as to suggest that popping in a hard drive is all they'd need to do to implement a secure, nationwide database that could be looked up operatives in the field. Looks like I gave you more credit than you were due.

A new searchable, updateable database system covering millions of new entries would involve a phenomenal amount of work and expenditure.So you just pop in a hard drive and off you go, yes?

Hmmmm, so... Let's assume that the DVLA already has a "searchable, updateable database system covering millions of new entries" in place... how much do you think it would cost to add another table and a few fields?

You seem to be assuming that there would be a need for a completely new database, run by completely new people from a completely new building. Do you not think it might just be possible to run the system on the back of an already tried/tested/working system and just add a new HDD to cope with the extra entries?
I'm pretty sure it would work quite easily but if you'd care to explain why this wouldn't work, I'm all ears...

 

[gentlegreen]

Probably.

I was incredibly lucky. I made my mistakes on motorcycles and never had much worse than a sprained ankle .. though going over the bonnet of a moron's car a week after passing my test taught me a lesson I will never forget - assume every motorist is a complete twat .. mind you I see plenty of cyclists with a death wish too.

After 20 years of cycling I doubt I could pass a bike test. I have my own approach to survival.
In my car I drive as if I'm carrying a load of eggs through a flock of flamingos.
On my bike I make sure I'm in their faces.
On my motorcycle .. nope - I doubt I'll ever ride one again - on the road anyway - waaay too vulnerable.

 

[Dr_Herbz]

Cycling should be promoted over driving in cities, for health, environmental and congestion reasons.

I couldn't agree more, but at what cost?

Would the government provide parking at the edge of the towns and supply bikes to everyone?

In an ideal world, we'd all be riding the mile or so to work. I used to cycle to work every day... 14 miles each way but should everyone be expected to do the same thing, surely people should have the choice without being punished for choosing to use a car?

Congestion charges do as much to alleviate congestion as speed cameras do to alleviate accidents.

What should really be done is this...

Starting tomorrow, everyone should say to the governmant... "Fuck you and your congestion charges, fuck your massive fuel taxes and vehicle taxes, we're not using our vehicles any more!"
Then let the government sort out the aftermath and see how long it takes for the country's economy to collapse but while people willingly bend over and take it up the arse, the government will keep taking the piss.

Although that really has nothing to do with a mandatory cycle test, just my little rant

 

[Crispy]

rant away!

 

[tommers]

What should really be done is this...

Starting tomorrow, everyone should say to the governmant... "Fuck you and your congestion charges, fuck your massive fuel taxes and vehicle taxes, we're not using our vehicles any more!"
Then let the government sort out the aftermath and see how long it takes for the country's economy to collapse but while people willingly bend over and take it up the arse, the government will keep taking the piss.

Although that really has nothing to do with a mandatory cycle test, just my little rant

why do you think people don't do that? the way you present it it seems to be the rational choice.

 

[likesfish]

your an idiot
much simpler scheme employ a few more coppers or pso and nick some of the "evil baby killing cyclists"
failing that have a nice cup of tea and a biscuit

 

[pembrokestephen]

Hmm.

Ideally, everybody wanting to ride on the road would do whatever they needed to do to get training and prepare themselves for the risks. They won't.

In principle, the idea of some kind of mandatory government test, at minimal cost, and without then bolting all kinds of cumbersome officialdom onto it, like licence plates, insurance, documentation, and the rest of the cobblers, isn't a bad one. But they won't.

So I say leave it as it is. There are laws to cover dangerous cycling - they could be better enforced, I am sure.

 

[pembrokestephen]

There isn't an increased need, the need has always existed...
http://www.rospa.org.uk/roadsafety/advice/cycling/cycling_accidents.htm
Statistics can't be denied, cyclists are involved in accidents, If testing and licensing saves just one life, surely this is sufficient reason for its introduction?

No. It's not.

If that were the case, cars would still have a man walking in front with a red flag, and doing ANYTHING that carried the slightest amount of risk would be banned.

We have to balance risk and benefit. And we have to accept that Darwinism still operates. Sometimes the wrong people die, but that's not for the State to worry about.

 

[pembrokestephen]

Hmmmm, so... Let's assume that the DVLA already has a "searchable, updateable database system covering millions of new entries" in place... how much do you think it would cost to add another table and a few fields?

It's a government department.

Put it like this: when they've worked out the budget, tripled it, and installed it, they can stick an "0" in the front and use it for the phone number of the enquiries line. In India.

 

[_angel_]

Here we are: New cycling tests to be launched. That's more than enough.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6494309.stm

Disgracefully, it is estimated that more than 90% of youngsters have never cycled to school too.

Why's that disgraceful?? Maybe they walk.

I'd actually be nervous of letting a kid on the road on a bike at rush hour tbh.

 

[_angel_]

I did have. At infants school, in fact. [Posters of a certain age, out yourselves here]

?

I had a tufty badge from playgroup/ nursery.

 

[_angel_]

I think a test for cyclists wouldn't achieve much. People would still cycle like twats if they think there's no one there to stop them.

More traffic police are the only way to ensure people don't drive or cycle like idiots.

 

[Herbsman.]

I miss Tufty

 

[rutabowa]

It's a government department.

Put it like this: when they've worked out the budget, tripled it, and installed it, they can stick an "0" in the front and use it for the phone number of the enquiries line. In India.

they would also have to come up with a standardised test system throughout the country... and implement it... train up a LOT of instructors and testers, cos all the people who currently have bikes would suddenly need to be tested all at once. it would be 50-100million to get it running.

 

[kyser_soze]

Sorry, did I miss something or do schools and community plod not run cycling proficieny classes and tests anymore?

I did mine when I was about 8 or 9 years old, it was part of the plods community service so didn't need extra funding, took about 3 or 4 days and you got a 'cool' ROSPA badge and certificate (still got mine at me Ma's). Not a great deal to it then, don't see why there'd be a great deal more to it now.

I don't understand this defensive attitude from Ed and others toward this - it should be an extension of existing community policing for kids and a nominal charge for any adults. I agree that it would be a good thing tho - road awareness, as well as knowing such things as how to take a right turn correctly (move to the centre line, wait until clear, make the turn; NOT pull into the nearside kerb and then cross both lanes as I see happen so often), planning your lane positioning etc etc...riding safely is a skill and like any other skill peeps should be taught the basics...

 

[rutabowa]

Sorry, did I miss something or do schools and community plod not run cycling proficieny classes and tests anymore?

I did mine when I was about 8 or 9 years old, it was part of the plods community service so didn't need extra funding, took about 3 or 4 days and you got a 'cool' ROSPA badge and certificate (still got mine at me Ma's). Not a great deal to it then, don't see why there'd be a great deal more to it now.

I don't understand this defensive attitude from Ed and others toward this - it should be an extension of existing community policing for kids and a nominal charge for any adults. I agree that it would be a good thing tho - road awareness, as well as knowing such things as how to take a right turn correctly (move to the centre line, wait until clear, make the turn; NOT pull into the nearside kerb and then cross both lanes as I see happen so often), planning your lane positioning etc etc...riding safely is a skill and like any other skill peeps should be taught the basics...

yeh i think the original point was that these aren't compulsory for everyone who cycles on the road.

 

[_angel_]

There may be a case for making the highway code part of the national curriculum though. I don't drive, or cycle and don't know it very well. I think if I were to inflict myself on the public by cycling, I'd want to learn the basics.

 

[rutabowa]

There may be a case for making the highway code part of the national curriculum though. I don't drive, or cycle and don't know it very well. I think if I were to inflict myself on the public by cycling, I'd want to learn the basics.

or even make cycling proficiency part of the national curriculum? that might be a plan.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

So from what age will this be required by law, Einstein? Four? Five?

And who's going to pay for it? And how's it going to be enforced? Will cyclists be compelled to carry a licence around with them and the police run spot checks?

Most - if not all - schools or local councils run cycling proficiency tests, anyway.

And considering the comparatively microscopic amount of serious accidents caused by push bikes compared to motorcyclists, feel free to elaborate why the money wouldn't be better spent in that direction. Thanks.

are you saying 4 & 5 year olds can cycle on the road?

the cyclist will have to pay for it.

same as the liecence for cars and motorbikes it's call a producer.

no see above.

good it could be part of a good citizen test that you can choose 5 gcses and have to do your cycling test as part of the national curriculm it'd even improve childrens health grand idea...

road saftey is of prime concern to all, there is a reasonable amount of evidence to suggest that car drivers who were previously motorcyclists are more consdierate of other road users becuase they transfer over some of the driving skills it would there for follow that if you first experince of road craft was on a bycycle that you would natrally be a more consdierate driver thus it could be considered to be the first step into a drving licence where it became complusory for you to have say 1 years cycling under you belt before being allowed to get behind the wheel or power bikes handlebars... this would considerably increase the standards of driving promote road safety and could cause a culturally shift in terms of how kids moved about and in what sort of saftey. this would in turn reduce the number of cars needed ont he school run as kids would be able to transprot themselves again this would promote healthier living more active lifestyle general health of the contry increases...

and so the circle goes...

why are you so against it other than your usual reactionary knee jerk against anything whcih seeks to make cyclists become responsible road users...