Should all salaries be made public? Perhaps Tax returns be public?

[scifisam]

Entire tax affairs of all individuals made public. Earnings from salary, investments, donations to charity, amount of tax clawed back cos of said donations. Your bank account(s) remain personal.

That's all gay charities fucked then, unless you assume everyone's happy to be out to the entire world. Any slightly controversial charity would suddenly lose a load of donations.

 

[chilango]

That's all gay charities fucked then, unless you assume everyone's happy to be out to the entire world. Any slightly controversial charity would suddenly lose a load of donations.

....or perhaps charitable donations shouldn't be a means of reducing your tax responsibilities?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

That's all gay charities fucked then, unless you assume everyone's happy to be out to the entire world. Any slightly controversial charity would suddenly lose a load of donations.

You do understand why a charitable donation would appear in someone's tax records, yeah?

 

[scifisam]

You do understand why a charitable donation would appear in someone's tax records, yeah?

Yes. And?

Charities benefit from it too, remember.

 

[scifisam]

....or perhaps charitable donations shouldn't be a means of reducing your tax responsibilities?

That'd mean a lot of charities closing down.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

That'd mean a lot of charities closing down.

So charities survive at the expense of public services, that's somehow a good thing?

 

[scifisam]

So charities survive at the expense of public services, that's somehow a good thing?

If all tax went to public services you might have a point, but that's not the way it works.

 

[chilango]

That'd mean a lot of charities closing down.

I'd rather that people paid sufficient tax to fund public services and that many charities no longer needed to stay open.

 

[scifisam]

I'd rather that people paid sufficient tax to fund public services and that many charities no longer needed to stay open.

I agree about some charities, but others - donkey sanctuaries, for example - are unlikely to count as a public service. And tax doesn't all go to public services. Increasing the tax intake has never automatically lead to an increase in public services funding.

 

[chilango]

I agree about some charities, but others - donkey sanctuaries, for example - are unlikely to count as a public service. And tax doesn't all go to public services. Increasing the tax intake has never automatically lead to an increase in public services funding.

True, but it's not just donkeys and cats is it?

Core public services funded by tax are being replaced by "third sector" provision funded by charity. In education this is accelerating rapidly for example. Allowing the more privileged sections of society to pick and choose what essential provisions they want to be funded and which they don't is not a good thing.

 

[Winot]

Is it necessary to list the charities on the tax return? The return itself just has a totals box for Gift Aid. My accountant always seems to submit a supplementary list of the charities themselves but I don't know whether this is mandatory.

 

[kabbes]

On the grounds that in time it may bring about a bit more equality.

That's what I'm questioning, though.

And it's even more tenuous an argument for including non-salary income.

 

[Winot]

I'd rather that people paid sufficient tax to fund public services and that many charities no longer needed to stay open.

The logic of your argument is that we should refuse to give to any charity, no matter what the position is with tax return transparency.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The Norwegian system is relatively straightforward. Total income and total tax paid are published, nothing else. I can see the benefits of this in terms of transparency in the job market, etc, although Norway is a far more egalitarian country than the UK. But even they've felt the need for some restrictions: if someone checks your return, you're told about it. I could see a fair few instances of tax rage if we had that here.

The Guardian approves.

 

[chilango]

The logic of your argument is that we should refuse to give to any charity, no matter what the position is with tax return transparency.

I've known people argue that.

I personally wouldn't argue it though.

I'd rather public services were properly funded through increasing the tax burden on the wealthier sections of society, and that charities were no longer a get out for tax or conscience purposes.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

If all tax went to public services you might have a point, but that's not the way it works.

A company can reduce its tax bill by sponsoring a new golf pavilion at Charterhouse School. That is how things currently work.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

That's what I'm questioning, though.

And it's even more tenuous an argument for including non-salary income.

I guess the idea goes that it makes it harder for bill-big-boss to justify a 1% increase for the average staff member when they can see he's just had an extra £50K added to his already £200K/pa salary.

tho to see those brass-necked fuckers in parliament doing exactly this, perhaps I'm living in a fantasy world.

 

[Winot]

A company can reduce its tax bill by sponsoring a new golf pavilion at Charterhouse School. That is how things currently work.

Easy solution to that - public schools should clearly have charitable status removed.

 

[kabbes]

A company can reduce its tax bill by sponsoring a new golf pavilion at Charterhouse School. That is how things currently work.

That's an argument for not making public schools into charities. Not for not making charitable donations tax-deductible.

 

[kabbes]

I guess the idea goes that it makes it harder for bill-big-boss to justify a 1% increase for the average staff member when they can see he's just had an extra £50K added to his already £200K/pa salary.

tho to see those brass-necked fuckers in parliament doing exactly this, perhaps I'm living in a fantasy world.

And you can already see that the executive team have done precisely that just by looking in the annual accounts.

 

[Winot]

FWIW I think this is one of those societal changes which would probably be good overall but would be painful to get to, and therefore won't happen. We have always taken the view that salaries in our firm are confidential, but should be decided on the basis that we should be able to defend them if they did become known.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

That's an argument for not making public schools into charities. Not for not making charitable donations tax-deductible.

What other charities do you deem un-charity worthy? Them RNLI fuckers can do one for a start, cos I don't go to sea and those that do know the risks their hobby entails...

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

We have always taken the view that salaries in our firm are confidential, but should be decided on the basis that we should be able to defend them if they did become known.

I've been in places where it is gross misconduct to reveal your salary.

 

[kabbes]

What other charities do you deem un-charity worthy? Them RNLI fuckers can do one for a start, cos I don't go to sea and those that do know the risks their hobby entails...

For now, I'll stick with charities that exist to entrench and extend privilege.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

For now, I'll stick with charities that exist to entrench and extend privilege.

Cambridge University then.

 

[kabbes]

Cambridge University then.

Indeed, don't see any reason why that should be a charity.

 

[redsquirrel]

That'd mean a lot of charities closing down.

Considering how charitable status is used (or rather abused) - excellent. Fuck charity, I want equality.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Indeed, don't see any reason why that should be a charity.

 

[catinthehat]

In Iceland there is a going rate for most jobs and pretty much everyone is in a Union which ensures the published rates are paid. There are add ons for things like experience and skill levels and in some cases age (teachers over 50 have reduced hours for teaching if they have been teaching for a specific number of years as it is assumed their experience supports others). Hence if you are a bricklayer or a teacher you know exactly what others doing the same job get. Its also a protection to migrant workers who might not know their rights - its hard for any company to bring in workers and undercut because if they pay below the going rate it makes the news and the company get a bad reputation.

 

[kabbes]

.

I do give to my old college on the grounds that it is ringfenced for the hardship fund. That donation is tax deductible, but I don't think it should be.