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Should all salaries be made public? Perhaps Tax returns be public?

Should income and or tax affairs be made public?

  • Tax returns should be made public

    Votes: 18 58.1%

  • Salary should be made public

    Votes: 13 41.9%

  • Income overall including from assets should be made public

    Votes: 15 48.4%

  • Income and all and any assets should be made public

    Votes: 16 51.6%

  • We should carry on as we do in the UK at the moment / none of the above

    Votes: 9 29.0%
  • Total voters
    31
chilango said:
Everything.
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It's hard to make the case that as well as knowing your boss's salary, you also have some kind of right to know his other financial affairs -- his investment returns, his charity giving, his other external income.
 
kabbes said:
It's hard to make the case that as well as knowing your boss's salary, you also have some kind of right to know his other financial affairs -- his investment returns, his charity giving, his other external income.
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Why would it be hard to make that case?
 
kabbes said:
It's not really the vanguard in that particular war that I'd prioritise. There are other hills to die on than the "full disclosure" one.
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Who said anything about priorities?

Salary disclosure is in the news right now. If I'm asked my view, as I have been here, I'll share it.

It's not something however that I'm "campaigning " on.

That said...it has come up, in several forms, in my workplace as part of "bread and butter" issues there.
 
kabbes said:
How do you distinguish between the public and private then? Is anything the realm of the personal?
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Entire tax affairs of all individuals made public. Earnings from salary, investments, donations to charity, amount of tax clawed back cos of said donations. Your bank account(s) remain personal.
 
chilango said:
Who said anything about priorities?

Salary disclosure is in the news right now. If I'm asked my view, as I have been here, I'll share it.

It's not something however that I'm "campaigning " on.

That said...it has come up, in several forms, in my workplace as part of "bread and butter" issues there.
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I don't really buy that line of reasoning. The expression of the opinion is one thing, but the degree to which one insists on it is where the campaign starts.

Firstly, there is no nuance in your point. So you are drawing a line in the sand that is quite confrontational to those who aren't 100% aligned. Nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend it isn't so.

Secondly, having drawn up those lines of confrontation, you are committed to the wedge you have driven between you and those on the other side, with whom you may otherwise have considerable alignment.

Salary disclosure exists in the context of the society and circumstances it is present in. Which drives which? I'd say that the disclosure is a blunt tool to change the society with and full tax affairs is also an inappropriate one because it includes many items I believe not to be public domain.
 
Incidentally, you can already see the salaries of directors of plcs just by looking in their accounts. Has that decreased inequality or in any other way helped class warfare?
 
I don't have the power to insist upon it.

No nuance? No. Perhaps not. It's just a crude tool to drag the discussion in a certain direction. True.

Is it confrontational? Hmmm. Not from my end. I'm not sure what this line in the sand is.
 
Not convinced it will give any greater drive to class war, nor will it help criminals to target marks more effectively.

Not seeing a use for it so far.

Within companies/employers I can definitely see a point in preventing unfair pay.
 
kabbes said:
Incidentally, you can already see the salaries of directors of plcs just by looking in their accounts. Has that decreased inequality or in any other way helped class warfare?
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Directors are removed from daily interactions for most of us.

It's the managers, the landlords, the supervisors, the people making demands day by day. The people issuing the orders,sending the emails "asking" for extra unpaid work, those who apologetically cite lack of funds for day to day privations.

It also works the other way. Finding out how little the people we depend upon get paid.
 
Idaho said:
Not convinced it will give any greater drive to class war, nor will it help criminals to target marks more effectively.

Not seeing a use for it so far.

Within companies/employers I can definitely see a point in preventing unfair pay.
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People already have the right under employment law to know what those doing the same job are earning.

An extension of this to wider vertical teams would be reasonable, I think.
 
chilango said:
Directors are removed from daily interactions for most of us.

It's the managers, the landlords, the supervisors, the people making demands day by day. The people issuing the orders,sending the emails "asking" for extra unpaid work, those who apologetically cite lack of funds for day to day privations.

It also works the other way. Finding out how little the people we depend upon get paid.
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Is it the case that as things stand you are unaware of wealth unequility amongst those people? How does income inequality tell you about wealth inequality? If somebody has an independent source of income unrelated to the interaction you have with them, does that change the relationship as compared with if they don't? In any case, are you actually going to look up the tax forms of every person you interact with? The whole 30 page tax form, in cases where they have multiple things to report on?

I think this is something that sounds good on first blush but is really messy in practice and with no actual benefits in reality. Whilst tramping wholesale on privacy issues.

On the privacy side: what if it reveals things about their personal life? Like if they have dependents they don't want you to know about, but there it is in the tax form?
 
kabbes said:
Is it the case that as things stand you are unaware of wealth unequility amongst those people? How does income inequality tell you about wealth inequality? If somebody has an independent source of income unrelated to the interaction you have with them, does that change the relationship as compared with if they don't? In any case, are you actually going to look up the tax forms of every person you interact with? The whole 30 page tax form, in cases where they have multiple things to report on?

I think this is something that sounds good on first blush but is really messy in practice and with no actual benefits in reality.
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It's not gonna happen in reality, is it?
 
chilango said:
It's not gonna happen in reality, is it?
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No, but it's interesting that when this subject comes up those who are most opposed to it tend to be those who earn more than most people, and those on lower salaries tend to be fairly happy to disclose their income to anyone who cares to listen. Why should that be the case?
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
No, but it's interesting that when this subject comes up those who are most opposed to it tend to be those who earn more than most people, and those on lower salaries tend to be fairly happy to disclose their income to anyone who cares to listen. Why should that be the case?
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Because we live in a shitty world of inequality and it's harder to form bonds with people if they feel there is a big divide between you even where those divides are not of your creation or choice?
 
kabbes said:
Because we live in a shitty world of inequality and it's harder to form bonds with people if they feel there is a big divide between you even where those divides are not of your creation or choice?
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Those divides are already there.
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
No, but it's interesting that when this subject comes up those who are most opposed to it tend to be those who earn more than most people, and those on lower salaries tend to be fairly happy to disclose their income to anyone who cares to listen. Why should that be the case?
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This is very true. And I an example of that. I'm sure when I earned £20k a year, 20 years ago, I wouldn't have thought twice about telling anyone who asked. Now I earn nearer £50k I still tell anyone who asks, I'm just noticeably (to myself) more reluctant/anxious about it.
 
Funnily enough every time I apply for a job I have to say what I earn. In fact every salary I've ever earned. I never get to reciprocate the question. Maybe next interview I should try. See how well it goes down :D
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
Not sure what you meant tbf. People who earn more than most others are more likely to be coy about how much they earn cos there is inequality in the world which makes it harder to form bonds with people?
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That's rather closer to it. And on what grounds are we destroying their right to this privacy?
 
Idaho said:
This is very true. And I an example of that. I'm sure when I earned £20k a year, 20 years ago, I wouldn't have thought twice about telling anyone who asked. Now I earn nearer £50k I still tell anyone who asks, I'm just noticeably (to myself) more reluctant/anxious about it.
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Then get a salary of £150k and see how anxious you feel; are you really worth 6 x chilango?
 
Bahnhof Strasse said:
Then get a salary of £150k and see how anxious you feel; are you really worth 6 x chilango?
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It's a question of whether a salary is a measure of worth, luck, privilege, skills, seniority or something else.

I wouldn't turn down a salary of £150k. It would just mean I would bring forward my retirement/downsize/escape plan by a decade.

But in answer to your question, yes I am definitely worth 6x chilango.
 
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