shocking images of the week!

[frogwoman]

when people say "i support israel's right to exist" - it all depends what the "right to exist" actually is, of course

it's perfectly possible to support israel's right to exist and not to support war crimes, depending on what you mean by it

 

[frogwoman]

of course, there's also a little thing called "cognitive dissonance"

 

[frogwoman]

it's like - if i asked you - do you support britain's right to exist? most people would say yes, unless you're an anarchist

if i said, do you support britain's right to exist as a christian state - ummm ... well ...

 

[laptop]

of course, there's also a little thing called "cognitive dissonance"

Which is where the reference to the kibbutz newsreels comes in.

 

[laptop]

Anyway: sleep time.

 

[goldenecitrone]

And... too tired to look beyond the Wikipedia page atm, but it seems it took 3 months for the entire US/UK war machine to get up to today's 3-week Gaza toll of direct deaths; and the total over 8 years (referenced to not-exactly-Pentagon sources) is 4,800 - 6,873, i.e 12 - 17 per week as against 350-odd per week.

[/SIZE]

Seeing as though we're probably on the same side I'll withdraw the prick bit. But the sanctimonious bit still stands. The stats look very cold by the way.

 

[gsv]

So, goldencitrone, you support the actual state that's committed actual war crimes?

That's an absurdly disingenuous question.

Do I support the war crimes?(I certainly recognise them.)
No.

Do I support the party (parties) in power?
No.

Did I mourn when Yigal Amir derailed a peace process that was actually making progress?
Yes.​

I support the Israel of Neve Shalom/Wāħat as-Salām and Shalom Achshav. A different vision of relations with Arabs and Palestinians (to say the least), but it's all the same Israel. A village of Jews and Palestinians living together and working for peace is an actually existing part of what you like to call the actually existing Zionist state.

GS(v)

 

[Bernie Gunther]

You seem to be incapable of distinguishing between an act of war, in which there are civilian deaths, and war crimes.

Why do you think that Sas? War crimes are pretty well defined, and I can read.

Unless perhaps you're using some other definition additional to the Geneva Conventions and so on, along the lines of: 'War crimes are a-priori not something Israel ever does, and anyone who says otherwise is a jew-hater.'

 

[laptop]

I support the Israel of Neve Shalom/Wāħat as-Salām and Shalom Achshav. A different vision of relations with Arabs and Palestinians (to say the least), but it's all the same Israel. A village of Jews and Palestinians living together and working for peace is an actually existing part of what you like to call the actually existing Zionist state.

GS(v)

I think it's time for a whip-round to put something like this in the JC:

Oy!

It's not like, you say "I condemn the State of Israel and all its works", you turn into a goy!


Professor Steven Rose says:

"I condemned the State and I'm more Jewish than I ever was"

Esther Cohen says:

"Our eyes met over a burning Magen David and I knew he was the one. I married David and we've gold-plated David's Zippo for little Ruth's first birthday present"

​

 

[ViolentPanda]

By blood, I am a Jew.

Having Jewish blood doesn't make you a Jew, it merely makes you a viable candidate for migration to the state of Israel, and makes facilitates your access to Judaism, if that's what you want.
What makes you a Jew is participating in Jewish social culture (which itself is hugely diverse) as part of your everyday life.

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't give a fuck what you think my 'agenda' is, Tangent, it won't wash: obviously you are stalking me, doing an Ern and collating what i have posted, scanning the site for signs of islamaphobia, etc,

I know right from wrong,

You lose. You were trying to paint tangentlama as 'anti-Semitic' but when he/she told you that they were Jewish, you try to save face with this. Well done. You've tried it with me before; only on that occasion, you accused me of (rather laughingly) "hunting for racism".

If you know "right from wrong", then you'd be in possession of certain facts rather than recycle Eustonite propaganda on this forum.

 

[nino_savatte]

Having Jewish blood doesn't make you a Jew, it merely makes you a viable candidate for migration to the state of Israel, and makes facilitates your access to Judaism, if that's what you want.
What makes you a Jew is participating in Jewish social culture (which itself is hugely diverse) as part of your everyday life.

He ate borscht once, give him a break!

 

[ViolentPanda]

He ate borscht once, give him a break!

My paternal great-grandfather was born in Glasgow, and I've eaten Scotch broth, Haggis and Atholl Brose, but that doesn't make me a Son of Caledonia, does it?

 

[Fedayn]

My paternal great-grandfather was born in Glasgow, and I've eaten Scotch broth, Haggis and Atholl Brose, but that doesn't make me a Son of Caledonia, does it?

Quite right, not knowing that you drink Athol Brose and not eat it being certain proof of that!!

 

[tendril]

I posted this on the Israel/Palestine thread:

So we have a situation where a mostly immigrant population has pushed out an indigenous one, or am I reading this wrong?

And had this reply:

Yes, that's exactly what they did. Of around 1,200,000 indignenous Arabs (including Jewish Arabs) in 1948, approximately 700,000 were driven out of their homes in what we now call Israel, into refugee camps in Gaza, the West Bank and neighbouring countries. More were driven out in 1967 (when Israel took over the West Bank and Gaza from Jordan and Egypt respectively). There are around 4 million Palestinian refugees registered with the UN today.

Israel was admitted to the UN un 1949 on condition that it respect previous UN resolutions, which included allowing the return of the refugees driven out in the war. They still have not been allowed to return. Those who live in the West Bank and Gaza have no freedom of movement, having to negotiate roadblocks and checkpoints even between neighbouring villages, and are under constant threat from the IDF. Those in refugee camps elsewhere, notably Lebanon, are scarcely better off.

Some people talk as if this were an even-handed conflict between neighbouring states. It is not. Israel is the occupying power and it is slowly strangling the life out of Palestine. And then people get all indignant when a few Palestinians decide to return fire. Unbelievable. How long are they supposed to wait for the UN to actually enforce its long held view of a just settlement?

I think my mind is now made up. Fuck the State of Israel (this is in no way 'Fuck Jews').

Sas, I'm sorry if this offends, but that is how I feel.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Israel stands accused of perpetrating a series of war crimes during a sustained 12-hour assault on a village in southern Gaza last week in which 14 people died.

In testimony collected from residents of the village of Khuza'a by the Observer, it is claimed that Israeli soldiers entering the village:

• attempted to bulldoze houses with civilians inside;

• killed civilians trying to escape under the protection of white flags;

• opened fire on an ambulance attempting to reach the wounded;

• used indiscriminate force in a civilian area and fired white phosphorus shells.

If the allegations are upheld, all the incidents would constitute breaches of the Geneva conventions.

The denunciations over what happened in Khuza'a follow repeated claims of possible human rights violations from the Red Cross, the UN and human rights organisations.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/18/israel-war-crimes-gaza-conflict

NB this is a totally different incident to the ones already being discussed above.

 

[Corax]

Oh, I agree, the *intention* wasn't anti-semitic. It's just that the *execution* was clumsy and ignorant, and would have pressed all the wrong buttons as far as people who actually know about the history of anti-semitic imagery are concerned.

Going some way back here, catching up...

I should have posted here instead of here methinks.

I appreciate that the cartoon could have been misinterpreted as anti-semitic, but the comparison makes it quite clear that 'blood libel' was not intended. Look at the shape of the baby. The slope of the shoulders. The position of the legs and knees. That this cartoon is a re-imagining of the Goya is not in dispute, surely. Before reading around on this, I knew that the sacrificing of children was an ancient and often used accusation against all sorts of groups, but I was not aware of it being a specifically jewish problem. I'm still not convinced it is.

At some point you have to draw the line. It's not reasonable to expect the entire UK population to be well-versed in the finer details of historical anti-semitism. No mens, no fault.

 

[Corax]

Well, I've read the rest of the thread and; fuck me what a load of bitching. Reads like the comments section on the fuckin' Echo.