shocking images of the week!

[treelover]

What's wrong? You never seen a politician kissing babies before ???

WTF, I look forward to similar flippant comments from you, when the BNP parade around with a similar image or one taunting Muslims

 

[tangentlama]

The connotations in the pic are dodgy. Definitely.

No. Not at all.

So these cheap and glib accusations of anti-Semitism, as a way of intimidating into silence justified criticism of the policies of this ghastly Israeli government, must be rejected with the derision they deserve. One way in which Israel is a democracy is that it has a free and lively press. I do not always admire the way in which the British press uses its freedom, but when foreign countries try to prevent and discredit that freedom, as the Israeli government and its acolytes are attempting with Brown's cartoon, it is time to tell them to buzz off.

 

[treelover]

s not antisemitism. Is satire

and the same goes to you as Tangent

 

[tangentlama]

WTF, I look forward to similar flippant comments from you, when the BNP parade around with a similar image or one taunting Muslims

It's a Spitting Image style puppet of Ariel Sharon, you fool.

 

[_angel_]

It's a Spitting Image style puppet of Ariel Sharon, you fool.

With fangs, eating a baby.

 

[treelover]

I think you will find most jews around the world will find the Op offensive, and isn't racism about how the intended target considers it, the mental gymnastics to defend this image are astounding...

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

 

[Goatherd]

And could you explain how it's 'nasty anti-semitism' exactly?

It's a stereotypical Jewish caricature with big fangs chomping on a baby. What is there to explain? That sort of stuff should be unacceptable, regardless of how appalling the Isreali government and army have behaved.

 

[mauvais]

Alright, I'll ask: what is your motivation exactly?

 

[tangentlama]

and the same goes to you as Tangent

I'm Jewish. Am I bovvered if someone makes a satirical image of Sharon/Likud policies ? Do you get upset about other political cartoons? Calling this image antisemitic is just an attempt to draw attention from the devastating consequences of Israeli govt/military policies.

Besides, you are the idiot who posted the image and says you are shocked. If you are truly shocked then where is your shock for the murder of innnocents by state/military agents ?

 

[tangentlama]

It's a stereotypical Jewish caricature with big fangs chomping on a baby. What is there to explain? That sort of stuff should be unacceptable, regardless of how appalling the Isreali government and army have behaved.

It's Ariel Sharon.

 

[treelover]

I don't give a fuck what you think my 'agenda' is, Tangent, it won't wash: obviously you are stalking me, doing an Ern and collating what i have posted, scanning the site for signs of islamaphobia, etc,

I know right from wrong,

 

[tangentlama]

You don't know right from wrong, or left from right.

You are a confused and sad little man if you think the most shocking image of this week is one of many well-known political cartoons showing Ariel Sharon/Likud-originating politico eating a baby.

You are just joining in the attempt to shut down discourse and paint criticism of Israel political and militarial actions as antisemitism.

Most Jews in Britain are not frightened at all by such satire. Really it is the least of our communal worries.

PS. I have better things to do than to stalk you - you're paranoid.

 

[_angel_]

I'm Jewish. Am I bovvered if someone makes a satirical image of Sharon/Likud policies ? Do you get upset about other political cartoons? Calling this image antisemitic is just an attempt to draw attention from the devastating consequences of Israeli govt/military policies.

Besides, you are the idiot who posted the image and says you are shocked. If you are truly shocked then where is your shock for the murder of innnocents by state/military agents ?

This is the bit I don't understand -- you can be every bit against murder of innocent people but still not want to see nasty anti semitism either. It's not an either/ or approach.

 

[Idris2002]

Has anyone else ever heard of this? I Googled for "blood sucking jew eating babies" and I didn't get any results. Maybe it's just me.

A persistent allegation of pre-modern anti-semitism was the assertion that Jews kidnapped Christian children, murdered them, and used their blood in religious rituals.

This is a well-known, and well-documented feature of pre-modern, religious anti-semitism. E2A: Take the 13th century case of Hugh of Lincoln, for example:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=953&letter=H

And if you believe in freedom for the Palestinian people, you ought to set your face against anything which makes life harder for them. The revival of old anti-semitic libels is one example of same, because it strengthens the hand of those in Israel who argue that only a militarily expansionist Zionist state can protect the world's Jews.

 

[treelover]

you are repeating yourself, T, I have already posted my anger about Palestine , again you don't have the monolopy on such concern.

Apart from that, this is a discussion board, an open one at that, if i wanted to support Israel (which i certainly don't that would be my right), i am sick of certain posters scanning the board looking for signs of deviance from the correct beliefs.

 

[Spion]

I know right from wrong,

As a choice for 'shocking image' of the week when the death toll in Gaza has reached 1,100 it shows your twisted morality which derives from trying to demonise those who do give a shit about it.

And taking your image from Spiked shows the murky waters you're prepared to swim in to feed your nasty agenda

 

[Spion]

obviously you are stalking me, doing an Ern and collating what i have posted, scanning the site for signs of islamaphobia, etc,

i am sick of certain posters scanning the board looking for signs of deviance from the correct beliefs.

Weird. Paranoid. Nutter

 

[tangentlama]

A persistent allegation of pre-modern anti-semitism was the assertion that Jews kidnapped Christian children, murdered them, and used their blood in religious rituals.

This is a well-known, and well-documented feature of pre-modern, religious anti-semitism.

And if you believe in freedom for the Palestinian people, you ought to set your face against anything which makes life harder for them. The revival of old anti-semitic libels is one example of same, because it strengthens the hand of those in Israel who argue that only a militarily expansionist Zionist state can protect the world's Jews.

It's not a revival of antisemitic blood libel though. It really is a political cartoon.
If we are to belive Julius QC then Ha'aretz and Yediot Ahranot newspapers are guilty of such blood libel every time they expose the Israeli power eschelons for the disasterous consquences of their military policies in the Occupied Territories.

Gerald Kaufman explains:

Satire or Anti-Semitism? Satire
'Democracies cannot be awarded a licence to carry out odious policies. "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many kids have you killed today?" was not seen as an unacceptably anti-Christian denunciation'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/satire-or-antisemitism-satire-746777.html

 

[treelover]

Thank you Idris,

The Protocols of Zion and Mein Kamf are on open sale in many ME countries, that cannot help the Palestinian cause, which i support and have done for many years in many ways. Once there has been an open debate, (with such excellent contributions as from Idris) maybe not on general, on this growing situation, I will stop posting on it.

 

[Spion]

you are repeating yourself, T, I have already posted my anger about Palestine , again you don't have the monolopy on such concern.

Why is an image of someone protesting about Israel killing children while wearing an Ariel Sharon mask more shocking as an image than one of the actual children that have been killed this week?

 

[tangentlama]

Thank you Idris,

The Protocols of Zion and Mein Kamf are on open sale in many ME countries, that cannot help the Palestinian cause, which i support and have done for many years in many ways. Once there has been an open debate, (with such excellent contributions as from Idris) maybe not on general, on this growing situation, I will stop posting on it.

That's right. Avoid the issue. Try to draw Idris in to defend you and avoid responsiblity for your trajectory. Run away. It never happened. Likud policies have never brought death to innocents.

The labelling as anti-Semitic of Dave Brown's cartoon, which depicted the Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon as a naked, child-eating ogre, was entirely spurious – but entirely predictable. Nor is it surprising that the lynch-mob was led by the Israeli embassy in London, once a respected diplomatic mission, but now the instrument of Israel's worst-ever Foreign Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu.

Anti-Semitic material can easily be spotted. The front page of the New Statesman on 14 January last year was blatantly anti-Semitic. It depicted an enormous Star of David impaling Britain's Union flag with, underneath in huge, bold letters, the strap-line: "A kosher conspiracy?" Brown's cartoon, specifically based on, and attributed to, a Goya picture, contained no Star of David. Indeed, no Star of David or other Jewish symbol was to be seen anywhere in the cartoon.

Sharon's genital area was concealed beneath an election rosette saying: "Vote Likud". If opposing such a slogan is anti-Semitic, then 69 per cent of the Israeli electorate, who voted for parties other than Likud, are presumably anti-Semites.

Of course, the depiction of Sharon was deliberately unflattering. That is what cartooning is about. George Bush, Tony Blair and other Western leaders are depicted in similarly unflattering terms every day of the week, but no one denounces the cartoonists as anti-Christian, though both Bush and Blair are much more high-profile in their religious observances than Sharon.

No; the attempt to discredit Brown's cartoon as a sort of continuation of the Holocaust by other means is the latest manifestation of a sedulous, insidious campaign by Likud, over many years, to discredit critics of its consistently nasty policies by equating such criticism as anti-Semitic. This Likud campaign was brilliantly categorised in 1982 by the great Israeli novelist Amos Oz, in his wonderful book of essays The Slopes of Lebanon: "Our sufferings have granted us immunity papers, as it were, a moral carte blanche. After what all those dirty goyim [non-Jews] have done to us, none of them is entitled to preach morality to us. We, on the other hand, have carte blanche, because we were victims and have suffered so much. Once a victim, always a victim, and victimhood entitles its owners to a moral exemption."

More than 20 years later, the murderous atrocities carried out by Palestinian terrorists against innocent Israeli civilians are deemed by Likud and its cronies to have extended that exemption. Today, because of that terrible trail of slaughtered Jewish children, Likud would like it to be regarded as impolite, at best, and anti-Semitic if at all possible, even to draw attention to the killing of innocent Palestinians, including babies (and others, as well, such as the British United Nations worker Ian Hook) by Israeli troops. It would, of course, be outrageous to depict the Israeli army's attack on Gaza at the beginning of this week – in which a dozen Palestinians were killed – as Likud's version of a pre-election rally.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/satire-or-antisemitism-satire-746777.html

 

[mauvais]

Alright, I'll ask: what is your motivation exactly?

I could probably keep going for quite some time, but I stopped caring by 2006.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is mine, on the Demo last Sat, the classic historical demonisation, whats yours....

Interesting.
You are, I take it, aware that your image is of a papier mache representation of a six year-old award-winning cartoon by Dave Brown which caricatures Ariel Sharon and the policies of his government, and not a representation of the blood libel made against Jewry in general, aren't you?

Or did you buy the "Spiked" line wholesale?

 

[Spion]

I'm still waiting for denunciations of anti-semitism for this

 

[treelover]

@Spion, do you listen, I said i am not going to get into the process of posting images of dead children, its impossible to argue with zealots like you, idris has pointed out the ancestry of such an image, it beggars belief you can't accepy that. I look forward to the same amount of leeway, when the far right display their wares.

 

[_angel_]

Why is an image of someone protesting about Israel killing children while wearing an Ariel Sharon mask more shocking as an image than one of the actual children that have been killed this week?

Why can you not bring yourself to condemn that image though?

Nobody is arguing that killing innocent civilians and children is wrong, on this thread. More a case of two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[Idris2002]

It's not a revival of antisemitic blood libel though. It really is a political cartoon.

Oh, I agree, the *intention* wasn't anti-semitic. It's just that the *execution* was clumsy and ignorant, and would have pressed all the wrong buttons as far as people who actually know about the history of anti-semitic imagery are concerned.

 

[treelover]

Nobody is arguing that killing innocent civilians and children is wrong, on this thread. More a case of two wrongs do not make a right.
Reply With Quote

Absolutely, and most of the country would agree, the zealots are a very small minority outside of indymedia land and the far left.

 

[Idris2002]

Try to draw Idris in to defend you and avoid responsiblity for your trajectory.

Every time I think I've got out. . . they drag me back in.