Shock Horror! Bible written by Stupid People

[nino_savatte]

It is not deadly. I survive on it for over 30 years.

salaam.

I didn't say it was "deadly".

 

[Aldebaran]

I didn't say it was "deadly".

No, but I thought you could be worried

 

[Fuchs66]

haha... the same old reply of people who just can't imagine that they could be worng in their assessment of what believing in God entails.
I'm very amused.

salaam.

I will always accept the possibility that I am wrong, do you? I have no real idea what it is like to believe in God as this is something I have no experience in I have however not yet experienced anything that has given me any reason to do so.

 

[maes]

Everything around you with any note, including this computer you are on is down to man's rationality and the application of logic. I am not paying any attention to that thread anymore because they have proved how unreasonable they are.

So humans are rational and people are just being irrational by not accepting it?

 

[Aldebaran]

I will always accept the possibility that I am wrong, do you?

Of course.

I have no real idea what it is like to believe in God as this is something I have no experience in I have however not yet experienced anything that has given me any reason to do so.

To think outside the boundaries of pre-framed & pre-conditioned reasoning opens unlimited possibilities.

salaam.

 

[Fuchs66]

Of course.



To think outside the boundaries of pre-framed & pre-conditioned reasoning opens unlimited possibilities.

salaam.

Who says reason has to be pre-framed and pre-conditioned? I find reason to be pretty much boundless certainly a lot more so than the religions where I have had limited contact.

 

[Aldebaran]

Who says reason has to be pre-framed and pre-conditioned? I find reason to be pretty much boundless certainly a lot more so than the religions where I have had limited contact.

Re-read your post 59. A typical example of pre-framed, pre-conditioned reasoning.
And you shall be surprised to hear that truly believing in God requires to step out of any frame and ignore all conditioning.

salaam.

 

[invisibleplanet]

Some people wouldn't know itijihad if it bit them on the proverbial

 

[Fuchs66]

Re-read your post 59. A typical example of pre-frame, pre-conditioned reasoning.

salaam.

Not at all

only possible by ignoring the contradictions and being selective in what you choose to believe IMO

The first part is purely my own opinion and does not in anyway pretend to be an absolute truth,

but so long as you dont expect me to believe then I leave you to your beliefs

merely requesting tolerance for my non-belief on your part

we all find the truth out in the end.

admitting that I personally have no idea of death as I have not as yet experienced it but as we are all guaranteed to die I'm sure we shall all experience more or less the same.

Nothing pre-framed or conditioned there as far as I can see.

 

[Aldebaran]

Not at all
The first part is purely my own opinion and does not in anyway pretend to be an absolute truth,

Yes it is, that is what I referred to (and which was amusing). Trace how you came to that opinion by being conditioned into framing it like that.

salaam.

 

[Fuchs66]

Yes it is, that is what I referred to (and which was amusing). Trace how you came to that opinion by being conditioned into framing it like that.

salaam.

I came to that opinion which I see purely as my own opinion, through my experiences NOT through what I have been told to believe, at no point do I say that I am the holder of all truths and when shown to be wrong I will readily admit my fault, in fact I find to be shown to have made a mistake is one of the most effective and interesting ways of learning.

Would you say that you believe in Allah but admit you could be wrong?

 

[Aldebaran]

I came to that opinion which I see purely as my own opinion, through my experiences

Experiences form the very core of any conditioning.

[/quote]NOT through what I have been told to believe, at no point do I say that I am the holder of all truths and when shown to be wrong I will readily admit my fault[/quote],

My aplogies if I came across as somehow attacking you. Not my intention at all.

in fact I find to be shown to have made a mistake is one of the most effective and interesting ways of learning.

Of course it is. No baby is born with all wisdom and no adult can have all.

Would you say that you believe in Allah but admit you could be wrong?

Of course. I'm only human. Would I be sure of absolutely everything, I would be God. Would I claim to be sure of absolutely everything, I would therefore commit blasphemy.

salaam.

 

[Fuchs66]

Experiences form the very core of any conditioning. .

Of course but I choose my own experiences to form my opinions and remain flexible enough to change my opinions if shown convincingly to be wrong I do not rely upon the experiences of others unless they can convince me and that is why I cannot accept religion because I have not been convinced argue long enough and the only answer is "because it is so" sorry but that isn't enough

My aplogies if I came across as somehow attacking you. Not my intention at all. .

I never felt attacked I quite like your style of discussion

Of course it is. No baby is born with all wisdom and no adult can have all..

Very true

Of course. I'm only human. Would I be sure of absolutely everything, I would be God. Would I claim to be sure of absolutely everything, I would therefore commit blasphemy.

salaam.

That is a very interesting statement and one I am sure would not be accepted by all followers of Islam, to doubt a belief is human I know but belief systems are weakened by doubt and often react strongly against it. Reason is strengthened by doubt, as doubt encourages further research and the developement of ideas.

 

[nino_savatte]

No, but I thought you could be worried

How so? How did you manage to extrapolate that from my post of a few words?

You'll be telling me that you can read minds next.

 

[Gmart]

Aldebaran, do you believe in personal interpretation of the koran, or do you believe it is the literal truth?

Just curious.

 

[Fuchs66]

Beyond the grave they will find nothing but death. But we shall keep the secret, and for their happiness we shall allure them with the reward of heaven and eternity.

Fyodor Dostoyevski

Says a lot about how I feel about religion, opium of the masses and all that.

 

[Aldebaran]

deleted double post.

 

[Aldebaran]

Of course but I choose my own experiences to form my opinions and remain flexible enough to change my opinions if shown convincingly to be wrong I do not rely upon the experiences of others unless they can convince me and that is why I cannot accept religion because I have not been convinced argue long enough and the only answer is "because it is so" sorry but that isn't enough

Anyone with an independently functioning brain adheres to this reasoning. That doesn't diminish the reality of experiences being at the core of opinions and conclusions. Experiences are in constant evolution hence just like opinions and/or conclusions should be.

That is a very interesting statement and one I am sure would not be accepted by all followers of Islam,

That reasoning in fact reflects the very core of Islam.

to doubt a belief is human I know but belief systems are weakened by doubt and often react strongly against it.

No serious doubt is able to weaken belief if you know what to do with it. Adressing and researching your doubts deepens your insight.
People who react as if doubts are somehow a "threat" should be educated about this.

Reason is strengthened by doubt, as doubt encourages further research and the developement of ideas.

Once again you present this as if believing in God somhehow gives birth to inability to reason. All my ideas originate with God, since God is my Creator. That is why in Islam studying is more commendable than praying. Using your intellect and its possibilities to the best of your abilities is a far intenser form of worshipping God.

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

edted double post

 

[Aldebaran]

Aldebaran, do you believe in personal interpretation of the koran, or do you believe it is the literal truth?

There is no such thing possible as finding "litteral truth" when studying the Message(s) of God. No matter how much you study on it, no matter how much you write or talk about it, all of it still remains merely a human's interpretation. All we can do is to try to comprehend to the best of our abilities.
(Knowing this is one of the reasons why the Prophet Muhammed is so much revered as the example to follow and the best Muslim that ever walked the earth.)

salaam.

 

[Gmart]

I don't really understand your answer. Do you personally interpret the Koran, thus dismissing certain passages as archaic and unrepresentative of the modern world, or do you feel that it will always describe exactly how a 'good' muslim should behave?

 

[invisibleplanet]

There is no such thing possible as finding "literal truth" when studying the Message(s) of God. No matter how much you study on it, no matter how much you write or talk about it, all of it still remains merely a human's interpretation. All we can do is to try to comprehend to the best of our abilities.
(Knowing this is one of the reasons why the Prophet Muhammed is so much revered as the example to follow and the best Muslim that ever walked the earth.)

salaam.

That's a well expressed point on the nature of individual human interpretation of any text, be it considered holy, or otherwise.

 

[Gmart]

That's a well expressed point on the nature of individual human interpretation of any text, be it considered holy, or otherwise.

With that limitation why do so many people decide to take a step of faith rather than live with the limitation.

 

[invisibleplanet]

rather than live with the limitation.....

...of incomplete sentences?

...of questions devoid of question marks?

 

[Gmart]

The limitation stated:

No matter how much you study on it, no matter how much you write or talk about it, all of it still remains merely a human's interpretation. All we can do is to try to comprehend to the best of our abilities.

 

[invisibleplanet]

You haven't defined what you see as 'the limitation'.

 

[Gmart]

That we can never know objective truth.

eta a 'k'

 

[jæd]

You haven't defined what you see as 'the limitation'.

Alders never defines things and talks in riddles all of the time... Typical god-botherer...

 

[invisibleplanet]

Alders never defines things and talks in riddles all of the time... Typical god-botherer...

I was talking to Gmarthews.

Your prejudice is shining through, btw, jæd.


(And Aldebaran explained the nature of individual literary interpretation well enough.)

 

[Gmart]

Do you accept that we all have this limitation IP?