Seymour Hersh: Obama's Entire Account Of bin Laden's Death Is One Big Lie

[Casually Red]

Yes.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/11/politics/seymour-hersh-obama-bin-laden-raid-lied/

My feeling is this, I think the Pakistani military and security services is a very fractious organisation, with elements within ISI, the military and the government having different agendas and goals, and various internal factions often working against each other. Certain sides would actively support the Taliban while others would be more pro Pakistani and the US. You're talking about the world of international terrorist, and espionage.

It is entirely plausible that Bin Laden was hiding in Abbottadbad with the help of some of ISI, and at the same time that the US were informed of Bin Ladens location by members of ISI. It's also entirely plausible that the US made up the story of the courier and the hunt for Bin Laden to protect their assets within ISI from repercussions of the raid. We're probably never really going to know the true story of what occurred.

Maybe I'm very jaded but after I read Hersh's account, the Whitehouse's version struck me as much more plausible.

Yeah yeah...we got you the first time . Bad apple theory , just like with the ruc and Brits . Bred fucking into you this lark .

 

[8den]

I forgot , you're a middle class dubliner .

I admire your restraint you've gone about three posts without flinging the west brit bullshit about.

Your instinctively putting forward the " bad apple " theory . The old faithful, bred into you . The one the Dublin media resorted to every time collusion literally screamed in your faces for about 30 years . " elements ". ....baddies with cross purposes to the " goodies" . God forbid officialdom would ever be rank and corrupt to the core . That the powers that be would be that cynical .

Wait so I'm saying that theres elements within ISI that support the Taliban and fundamental Islam and elements within ISI that are more pro western. Yet you're deriding me and saying that my worldview is over-simplistic and boils down to "goodies" and "baddies"?

Do you a irony deficiency CR?

 

[Up the junction]

I forgot , you're a middle class dubliner . Your instinctively putting forward the " bad apple " theory . The old faithful, bred into you . The one the Dublin media resorted to every time collusion literally screamed in your faces for about 30 years . " elements ". ....baddies with cross purposes to the " goodies" . God forbid officialdom would ever be rank and corrupt to the core . That the powers that be would be that cynical .

This is utterly stupid. I have to start the day by reading this.

What's worse, 'cynically' playing the man and not the ball, or assuming someone is so fick they can't form a view outside the context of their local media?

 

[Mr Moose]

The very notion he would even contemplate living there without Pakistani protection and knowledge strikes me as utterly absurd . It defies credibility .

The Pakistani Government and Military are not unified overlords of the whole country. It's quite plausible that he was the 'guest' of one aspect of the state with others unaware.

It's true, I've seen it on 'Homeland'.

 

[Mr Moose]

Yeah yeah...we got you the first time . Bad apple theory , just like with the ruc and Brits . Bred fucking into you this lark .

You appear to be putting forward a position of different countries with utterly corrupt Government and Militaries who are able to trust each other.

Ultimately the operation boils down to 'Bad Man shot in a barrel' but that doesn't mean it didn't take a bit of pulling off.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ultimately the operation boils down to 'Bad Man shot in a barrel' but that doesn't mean it didn't take a bit of pulling off.

you mean it's a load of wank i suppose

 

[Pickman's model]

This is utterly stupid. I have to start the day by reading this.

i always ensure my breakfast's settled in my stomach before reading one of your posts.

 

[Casually Red]

Just to confirm...I was pissed at time of posting


Still am

 

[Casually Red]

This is utterly stupid. I have to start the day by reading this.

What's worse, 'cynically' playing the man and not the ball, or assuming someone is so fick they can't form a view outside the context of their local media?

Nobody's stopping you from jumping out the window...literally nobody

 

[phildwyer]

I find it interesting that it is alleged Bin Laden was being supported by the Saudis while he was there.

It makes one wonder to what extent the Saudis were responsible for creating Al Qaeda and for what purpose.

There's no such thing as "the Saudis."

There's thousands of multi-millionaire princelings, with a wide variety of political views, many of whom tend towards proselytizing fundamentalism. We need look no farther for the sources of AQ and IS funding.

 

[phildwyer]

Actual investigative journalism is something Hersh has a very solid track record in doing.

He's got too much of a reputation to lose, and it's too easily lost, for him to publish anything of which he's not 1000% sure.

 

[StoneRoad]

It is not unknown for some "investigative" journalists, even good ones to either be misled by their sources (sometimes deliberately, but often because of limited/incorrect information) or to "make stuff up" to fit the story and hope to 'prove' their assertions afterwards.
On the other hand - a few journos are *honest* ...............

 

[ViolentPanda]

And America reportedly used two previously unknown 'stealth' helicopters to fly, unseen, right next to a major Pakistani city. Pakistan may have poverty but it is also a major modern military nation, capable of building its own fighter jets and its own nuclear submarines. This is not a country with World War II radar.

Imagine if one of those top secret, hitherto unknown, helicopters had fallen into the hands of the Pakistanis? What wealth of top secret new technology would have been gained by Pakistan.

If normal procedure (for the US military) was followed, there are standing orders to destroy technology - even relatively non-complex stuff like comms. The US has re-learned the lesson about not gifting people guns to shoot you with several times.

So-called "stealth" stuff is most likely shit like acoustic engineering to mask or counteract engine and prop noise, as well as minimally-radar reflective bodies (both of which have been "in development" for decades), so not stuff that Pakistan's military engineers would be absolutely unaware of, anyway.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Which is why the Seals didn't leave the helicopter for the Pakistani military, and destroyed it.

Spiking your own guns (literally or metaphorically) is always good practice if you have to leave them.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Which is why I don't believe the whole casually dumping the body in the Hindi Kush part of the story. Every part of the raid was meticulously planned. I don't believe they'd have gone in the the compound without a solid definitive plan of what precisely they'd do with Bin Laden's body (or if somehow they'd taken him alive). Taking the body with them, and then deciding to chuck it out the door half way home doesn't make a lick of sense.

ObL's body is blatantly lying preserved in a glass case in the White House basement.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It is not unknown for some "investigative" journalists, even good ones to either be misled by their sources (sometimes deliberately, but often because of limited/incorrect information) or to "make stuff up" to fit the story and hope to 'prove' their assertions afterwards.
On the other hand - a few journos are *honest* ...............

Sure. But someone with Hersh's record deserves to be taken seriously. He's earned that right. And when others who have also earned that right come forward to corroborate various aspects of his story, he deserves to be taken even more seriously.

The US govt on the other hand, with a motive for and history of lying through its teeth on such matters, has not earned such a right.