Sexism at Work

[Shmu]

I'm amazed that so many people seem to think she should just live with it for fear of being bullied if she speaks her mind although I do relate to the fear that when you say anything on this particular front, you can open yourself up to personalised sexist abuse or at least to being cold-shouldered.

I don't know about the law in this area, but I've always assumed that it was no longer deemed acceptable for people to inflict their pornography on others at work.

What sort of workplace is it?

If there is anyone in an HR role, I'd have thought they'd be obliged to do something about it (You could ask them to to keep your name confidential. As you're not complaining about a specific individual, I'd have thought this was a perfectly reasonable request).

I'd probably ask advice from someone who knows about the law on this before making any move to sort it, so that you have some ammunition handy.

 

[equationgirl]

I'm an engineer and have worked in many male dominated workplaces. There have been two instances where I have seen pictures of topless women displayed.

The first was at uni - the technicians had a handful of pictures on the wall of the workshop. However, the wall could be seen from the common room area above (glass walls). I have to admit, I was never really that bothered by them, I think one was a product calendar from a tooling company - bikini clad girl holding spanner kind of thing - but they were removed after a woman from another department complained about them. Fair enough.

The second was in a manufacturing plant. There was about 100 men working on the shop flow, and I was one of three women who worked in the offices. The fitters were great blokes, always having a laugh but not disrespectful to the women at all, except for one who had a porn calendar hanging on his lathe, and was a miserable sod.

On the whole and considering the profession I work in, I have never received sexist attitudes or comments from engineers. The only time I have received such an attitude was whilst working as a university administrator, and the whole of the management attitude was, if you didn't have a beard, or a penis, or a PhD, you didn't count. And HR didn't want to know.

 

[Pingu]

k i know the following is morally wrong.. but its probably accurate

if the piccies have been there a long time you can pretty much bet that management are cool with them being there

if you complain i am betting you wont have a job for long and your time there will be fairly miserable.


if you put up piccies of naked men you wil lprob be seen as "joining in the fun" and I am betting that more explicit pics of women will go up ...


personally i would start looking for another job or learn to live with the situation, even though you shouldnt have to.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

personally i would start looking for another job or learn to live with the situation, even though you shouldnt have to.

Thing is that if Poot does that, and if most women who work in similar situations and have her concerns also do that then nothing will ever change. Not trying to put more pressure on Poot, but it is a consideration.

Poot, the decision has to be yours as it is you that will have to keep working there. But you shouldn't have to be put in a situation which makes you this uncomfortable. I should think that in theory there should be safeguards to make sure that you wouldn't be harrassed for the complaint, but then I guess blind eyes can be taken. Because of that I suggest that even before you decide what to do you should join a union if you can, or speak to your union if you're already a member. If there are negative repercussions from any complaint you may want to take they'll be there to look after you.

Makes me feel lucky to have only worked for PC organisations since graduating.

 

[Poot]

Thanks for all your replies. It seems opinions are very divided on the matter and I have decided to do... nothing. For the time being. I am new to the job and don't really know who I should speak to about it, and since I'm not sure who put them up in the first place, I shall bide my time. I am beginning to greet them like old friends whenever I am alone in there ("Alright Jordan! Hiya Keeley. Nice tits!")

Those of you who said I could make myself very unpopular very quickly are right. However, those who said that women should stand up and be counted in these situations are also right, and I will continue to make my stance known when the topic arises. Mainly because if I invited visitors in I would be mortified, and I don't understand why they aren't...

As for adding my own pics of naked men, it's already like walking into 1993... Besides, i'm too long in the tooth to be playing that game.

Can't tell you exactly what we do because then it'll be obvious where we work but yes it is a pretty blokey job, and considering I've spent most of my working life in an office surrounded by gay men and women on diets, yes it has come as a bit of a culture shock!

 

[Pingu]

if you have decided to be there for the long term you could try slowly dropping stuff in rather than doing a millie tant and going off on one (no matter how justified you are in doing so).

eventually the message will trickle home - hopefully and you may see the piccies start to come doen. never know

 

[Descartes]

Hmm, what do you do as the newbie, join the satus quo or stand and been seen as different and, quite possibly, become the object of disdain.... Post mens pictures, that might be seen as a direct confrontation... post something different.... holiday landscapes.. but poster size... the comments there are other and better things to look at and more relaxing, Art, with the comments, this makes me think.... artistic portraits.... Eschers there are masses of 'pictures' to post without becoming confrontational. And still be seen as making your point. .. personally, Banksy, political graffiti...and really make your point... LOL and with a sense of homour.

Good luck on what ever route you choose.

 

[Sweaty Betty]

Thanks for all your replies. It seems opinions are very divided on the matter and I have decided to do... nothing. For the time being. I am new to the job and don't really know who I should speak to about it, and since I'm not sure who put them up in the first place, I shall bide my time. I am beginning to greet them like old friends whenever I am alone in there ("Alright Jordan! Hiya Keeley. Nice tits!")

Those of you who said I could make myself very unpopular very quickly are right. However, those who said that women should stand up and be counted in these situations are also right, and I will continue to make my stance known when the topic arises. Mainly because if I invited visitors in I would be mortified, and I don't understand why they aren't...

As for adding my own pics of naked men, it's already like walking into 1993... Besides, i'm too long in the tooth to be playing that game.

Can't tell you exactly what we do because then it'll be obvious where we work but yes it is a pretty blokey job, and considering I've spent most of my working life in an office surrounded by gay men and women on diets, yes it has come as a bit of a culture shock!

You sound like a fair and rational top kinda girl, im sure you are capable of making the right decision for you, in fact you already have, it seems....

 

[equationgirl]

What if you cut clothes out of magazines and blu-tacked them on?

Do you think they'd get the point?

 

[Poot]

What if you cut clothes out of magazines and blu-tacked them on?

Do you think they'd get the point?

I'd need a really big magazine, if you see what I mean!

 

[equationgirl]

Hmmm, I see what you mean.

Shame though, think of the outfits they could have worn.

 

[equationgirl]

What if you had an accident whilst carrying your lunch tray and they all got splashed with, oh I don't know, coffee/spaghetti sauce/curry?

Just hypothetically like.

 

[Sweaty Betty]

Have a water fight, its very hot lately....

 

[radio_atomica]

I would put an anonymous note/message in to your line manager just to say that you don't feel comfortable with it and request that they take action as it could be considered sexual harrassment. If nothing is done then go to their manager and so on until someone listens. I bet there are probably a few blokes who don't like it either but don't say anything because they don't want to be accused of being 'gay'. Maybe wait until you've been there a bit longer and see who seems like they might be most sympathetic and try to get them on your side and then confront the management with other people to back you up.

 

[Radar]

I'd need a really big magazine, if you see what I mean!

Big Black Marker, draw the pants and tops on yourself Along with glasses, tashes, pock-marks, willies, devil's horns, big hairy bollocks. Whatever takes your fancy really

Hey, it's only as a 'joke', just like the pictures themselves, no ?
[check for cameras first ]

Fucking Neanderthals

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Heh, I quite like the drawing/sticking on clothes idea. Get there dead early one morning, do the deed, and then head round the corner for a coffee before anyone turns up!

 

[filthygypsy]

You aren't being unreasonable - it's a double standard. I bet the blokes in the canteen wouldn't like it if you pinned up pics of naked hunky men in a communal area.

Some of us have no choice. Theres a group of women in the company i work for who have tons and tons of posters / calenders of "hunky" half naked blokes on the walls behind them. There are no posters of any half naked women on the walls behind us blokes, as we know if we did have them up, the women could complain that they are sexist & degrading to women. But, us blokes have to put up with it!

 

[trashpony]

Some of us have no choice. Theres a group of women in the company i work for who have tons and tons of posters / calenders of "hunky" half naked blokes on the walls behind them. There are no posters of any half naked women on the walls behind us blokes, as we know if we did have them up, the women could complain that they are sexist & degrading to women. But, us blokes have to put up with it!

No you don't.

Complain - it's no better.

 

[ada]

No you don't.

Complain - it's no better.

Absolutely.

In both these cases, if the person is uncomfortable and complains, that has to be addressed by the employer. If the person feels it has not been addressed appropriately, that is grounds for a grievance under sexual discrimination legislation. This applies both to men and to women.

 

[clmk]

Cut clothes out of magazines and blu-tack them on.
you don't need actual pictures of clothes you could just use coloured or white paper.
On the subject, trying to get women to respect themselves and not bowing down to having to act like doormats, and protstitues is extremely hard seeing as you have to beat out the sexist mainstream propaganda out of their heads first.

 

[Cloo]

I'd say it might not hurt to go for a compromise - as in say that you totally accept it might brighten the lads' days up to have a few pictures, and you don't have a problem with them in themselves, but them covering everything in that way and in your face every day is uncomfortable for you. Then asking if they don't mind just posting up a few on each wall, or just keeping them to one wall?

I think most people would be able to respect that.

 

[ZUL]

It is quite clearly sexual harassment, and you don't have to complain, as such. Just draw it to the attention of someone in authority. Is there an HR department/person there? If not, find someone else in authority, or simply tell your manager that it makes you uncomfortable. Put it in writing (an email is fine), as a confirmation that you have pointed it out.

As ever, speak to your union. If you are not in a union, join one.

First of all, fuck the union.

Second, I would think about how and where you want this job to go.

I'm not suggesting leaving it and continuing to not feel comfortable, I'm merely suggesting that you handle it in a way that won't totally alienate you from your new co-workers and that will also let them know that you aren't comfortable with the current situation.

If you don't just go straight to the management, and actually discuss it with the people responsible for the photos, (assuming they are good people) they will respect you more for being strong enough to voice your concerns, as opposed to being a whiny little newb cry baby who hasn't worked there very long and is already making waves in the office pool.

Now if you let them know that you aren't comfortable with it, and they still leave it up or seem disagreeable about your request, now is the time to take it to a higher level.

But something you might also want to think about is, what kind of company would allow this in a public/communal area without objection, and knowing that, is it a company that you could realistically see yourself working for?

Just a thought...

 

[Cloo]

I think everyone's being a bit extreme here... as I've suggested, might a word with someone higher up asking just to compromise a bit help. Then it doesn't even have to be associated with her - the management can just come out and say 'Guys, we'd like you to cut down a bit on the girly pics, it's seeming a bit aggressive'.

 

[Ceej]

Being a bit light-hearted here, in the face of a significant problem - was easier for me 'cos one or two of the other women in the office were also pig sick of the acres of flesh...one dark night we took felt tipped pens and 'dressed' all the women in the pictures...defaced the bloody lot. It wasn't hugely appreciated, but the point was made in a fairly non-confrontational and humorous way, and only one or two were replaced.

It IS agressive and intimidating and offensive to be surrounded by these kind of picture and your employer has a duty to protect you from this. Could give the felt pens a go, maybe. Good luck!

 

[Looby]

I think everyone's being a bit extreme here... as I've suggested, might a word with someone higher up asking just to compromise a bit help. Then it doesn't even have to be associated with her - the management can just come out and say 'Guys, we'd like you to cut down a bit on the girly pics, it's seeming a bit aggressive'.

The problem is, like others have said they wouldn't get away with it if the management didn't approve.

I don't know what field of work Poot's in but I used to work in the finance industry and it's very male orientated, they would not put up with someone coming in and upsetting the status quo. Also, I think it might be a bit obvious where it's suddenly come from unless there were a few starting at the same time.

Maybe get to know the managers a bit first, suss out how 'matey' they are with other staff. If they're quite aloof and distant then it will go no further. But, if they all drink together every friday night then whatever is said may well get back to the other staff anyway. It always did at our place.


I know I sound really negative and I do think that Poot shouldn't have to put up with that working environment if she's not comfortable but in my bitter experience Poot could end up worse off. And I know how much of a cop-out I sound.

 

[Poot]

I feel rather guilty for starting this thread and really not contributing much to it but here's the truth:

I have done nothing about this. Nada. Zilch. I still have no idea who put them up in the first place even! I now only go into the canteen to fill the kettle and to be quite honest, once the initial shock wore off I became aware that I might be over-reacting a tad. And I also realised that my feelings weren't strong enough to justify me making myself unpopular at a place where I'm actually quite enjoying working.

I have looked at the responses here regularly and I learnt that I would probably feel the same, more or less, if the posters were of naked men- slightly embarrassed for the person who put them up!

I think I was over-reacting and anyway, it's possible that they're so in-your-face because it was intended as a joke.

 

[Sweaty Betty]

I feel rather guilty for starting this thread and really not contributing much to it but here's the truth:

I have done nothing about this. Nada. Zilch. I still have no idea who put them up in the first place even! I now only go into the canteen to fill the kettle and to be quite honest, once the initial shock wore off I became aware that I might be over-reacting a tad. And I also realised that my feelings weren't strong enough to justify me making myself unpopular at a place where I'm actually quite enjoying working.

I have looked at the responses here regularly and I learnt that I would probably feel the same, more or less, if the posters were of naked men- slightly embarrassed for the person who put them up!

I think I was over-reacting and anyway, it's possible that they're so in-your-face because it was intended as a joke.

That sounds like a perfect approach and resolution if its makes you happy


Id say posting this thread served its purpose for you in a very positive way......