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Severn Barrage or Tidal Lagoons?

lewislewis

Lumumba Cymru
The Assembly Govt and Uk Govt are doing a joint feasability study into the Severn Barrage idea, expecting to lead to a final decision in 2010. The study will also look at the possibility of tidal lagoons and decide whether they are in fact a better alternative than a Barrage (can't have both unfortunately, a Barrage would alter the tidal flow).

I think tidal lagoons would be a better option because there are enough sites for them to produce more energy than the barrage, they'd be cheaper, and wouldn't destroy any animal habitats. The fact nobody else has made them yet is a challenge rather than an obstacle. Wales should be the first in the world to do this!

Leanne Wood asked a question in the Senedd yesterday raising the issue of lagoons, and although Rhodri's reply was dodgy, I think it is very good that lagoons haven't been ruled out at this stage and that there will be some official information emerging on them:

"The First Minister: We recognise that there are mammoth environmental problems connected with a barrage, and that there would be some substantial environmental problems connected with tidal lagoons. We are not ruling anything out at this stage, but, as I recall, there will be a feasibility study into the construction a barrage. However, the broad principle is that of how you capture, to the best effect, the enormous power generated by the tidal inflow and outflow of 5 cu km of seawater in the Severn estuary once every 12.5 hours. It is a colossal force to capture, if it can be captured. The answer to the question of whether lagoons are better than barrages has not yet emerged. You paint a pretty rosy picture of lagoons, and you say that they could do the same job as a barrage, but the indications that we have show that they would not do the same job. It may be that we will end up with lagoons and not with a barrage, but they will not do the same job as a barrage. The barrage is a better way of capturing the power, but, as we all accept, it brings with it mammoth environmental problems. "

I don't know what indications Rhodri has at all about tidal lagoons (not the Friends of the Earth ones, that's for sure!) but it's a good thing that the feasability study won't be ignoring them.
 

zog

wants to be an aardvark
Neither. We should knock down Newport and build a great big fuck of nuclear power plant.
 

kyser_soze

Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Hmm, at least the politicos are talking about lagoons now - that's better than it was a year ago when it was all 'barrage'

The irony is there's more potential use of materials in building the lagoons (accordng the the FoE study they use about 2/3 again as much material), and the building emissions between the barrage and lagoons isn't greatly different...BUT the lagoons can be built 2 or 3 at a time, as opposed to having to ship in 50K+ consruction workers and the rest of it...
 

lewislewis

Lumumba Cymru
kyser_soze said:
Hmm, at least the politicos are talking about lagoons now - that's better than it was a year ago when it was all 'barrage'

The irony is there's more potential use of materials in building the lagoons (accordng the the FoE study they use about 2/3 again as much material), and the building emissions between the barrage and lagoons isn't greatly different...BUT the lagoons can be built 2 or 3 at a time, as opposed to having to ship in 50K+ consruction workers and the rest of it...
Yeah that is true- the lagoons require loads more construction materials, but once they're built they don't ruin any habitats.

At least they're being looked at, that's where I think Leanne's question worked and was relevant.
 

Udo Erasmus

Well-Known Member
Maybe Leanne will ask a question about St Athan's Military Academy and that might work or one of Plaid's other 14 AMs?

Friends of the Earth Cymru have some good briefings on the Tidal lagoons online somewhere.
 

kyser_soze

Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
FoE produced an outline study about lagoons vs the barrage, and it makes interesting reading...the lagoons come out just about ahead on the power generation/pollution stakes, but really score on the non-generation environmental impact.

The biggest issues is proof of concept- no-one's built the lagoons ever, so they're riskier as a concept and will take longer to build...

I'm basically in favour of the lagoons, but have a horrible feeling that they might turn into a classic british 'cool innovation/results leave something to be desired/costs overran to an obscene amount' debacle...
 
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lewislewis

Lumumba Cymru
Udo Erasmus said:
Maybe Leanne will ask a question about St Athan's Military Academy and that might work or one of Plaid's other 14 AMs?
That's a non-devolved issue...whereas lagoons would be an issue where the Assembly Govt does have a say.

Perhaps you'd support law-making powers for Wales so that we could have more of an influence over these things? Although, defence would still be reserved by Westminster as long as we're part of the UK.
 

Tankus

living someone else's dream.
About 'kin time

UK s first tidal lagoon power station to be built in Swansea bay



this will also terminally prevent UCG burning under the bay

It will be interesting to see how they can flush it ...as sedimentation is high in the bay?
Maybe something like Saundersfoots self flushing harbour , with a reservoir behind the harbour which gets dumped at low tide keeping the deepwater channel open out from the harbour ...dunno ?



anyways ......better late than never ....
 
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William of Walworth

Festographer
I wanted some idea of how definite (or not) it might be that the (IMO excellent) Swansea Bay Barrage project would be approved, and I wanted some idea of the timescale.

From the Swansea Bay Barrage page on this site :

What happens next
10/03/2015 - Deadline for Planning Inspectorate to submit recommendation

The examination closed on 10 December 2014. There will now be a period of 3 months for the Examining Authority to consider and make a recommendation to the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State will have 3 months in which to make their decision.
So nothing nailed on until early June. This coming Tuesday (10th March) will be an important stage though.
 

StoneRoad

heckling from the back!
Perhaps the Swansea Bay could be a trial of the design / build processes, and can be used to determine the environmental affects on wildlife and the bore ...
 

William of Walworth

Festographer
what happened then?
Stop it :mad:

I genuinely HALF-thought THEN that THAT year's budget** MIGHT become a pre-election Wales sweetener ... for a very long time since then, and for a very long time pre-bump :hmm: , I've thought that the ultra-delay about the Swansea Bay Lagoon has been an unjustifiable disgrace :( :mad:

**March 2015!!! At least I spotted your 'hint' though .... I might not have noticed the ultra-delay of
teqniq 's bump :hmm: otherwise :cool: :)
 
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William of Walworth

Festographer
Certainly no certainty that the project will go ahead though :( :( :hmm:

From that BBC summary though, I like most of Hendry's report :)

As you might guess I'm a massive fan of this plan ... :cool:
 

Tankus

living someone else's dream.
Bumperty bump de bump


Epic wind here on Rhoose point tonight ......house is rattling like an old one
 
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