Serious question to the political left regarding terrorists

[Pickman's model]

Maybe not politically but I do consider myself "bright" in quite a few regards.

such as?

 

[Christian Man]

if it's a choice between voting barking mad warmonger and just warmonger, who would you vote for?

Maybe not voting is the right thing to do or penciling in someone.

 

[Christian Man]

such as?

I'm successful in business, my social life, family life, I'm decently well read I think etc.

 

[Blagsta]

You just ask dumb questions on bulletin boards, right?

 

[magneze]

Maybe not voting is the right thing to do or penciling in someone.

Penciling in someone? Is that like a "hanging chad"?

 

[Badger Kitten]

Madrid has quite a right wing rep, as I recall.

 

[Christian Man]

Madrid has quite a right wing rep, as I recall.

I know Spain voted in a Socialist government I'm not sure where Madrid stands though?

 

[Christian Man]

Penciling in someone? Is that like a "hanging chad"?

No, its voting for who you want to vote for even if they're not on the ballot.

 

[montevideo]

Do you think these suicide bombers actually think in that manner?

no. Which is surely the point. We are all the enemy. From the pattern that seems to be emerging there is no tactical plan that seeks to garner support from 'outside' sources (thus trying to gain sympathy or at least some kind of political understanding).

Like i say, if they'd have targeted gleneagles, wouldn't we be jumping for joy?

 

[Christian Man]

Maybe I should ask the questions diferently.

What are the terrorists end goals? Change our way of life? Are they attacks against our political establishment? are they against our economic power? etc

Why do you think they are using the means they are using to reach their ends?

Do you think their means will be effective long term?

 

[magneze]

No, its voting for who you want to vote for even if they're not on the ballot.

Ah, spoilt ballot, gotcha.

 

[soluble duck]

I definitely disagree, economies are not run on buildings. You can take away all our skyscrapers and we'll still find a way to go to work just as Londoners will ride their bike to work if they have to. Even after 9/11 our economy just paused for a bit. Economies run on oil.

sorry i dont think i explained myself very well.

terrorists arent going to be able to realistically cripple the economy so its better to destroy symbolic places and cause as much disruption as possible

 

[Christian Man]

sorry i dont think i explained myself very well.

terrorists arent going to be able to realistically cripple the economy so its better to destroy symbolic places and cause as much disruption as possible

I see what you are saying and partially agree but if terrorists get one oil choke point then that food which was supposed to be delivered to your grocery store may not make it without gas. That would definitely hinder us in all aspects.

 

[Christian Man]

Maybe I should ask the questions diferently.

What are the terrorists end goals? Change our way of life? Are they attacks against our political establishment? are they against our economic power? etc

Why do you think they are using the means they are using to reach their ends?

Do you think their means will be effective long term?

I'll go first.

I think their end goals are to dominate our way of life, put our political establishment on the run, and bring down our economic power. I think they want superiority not justice.

I think they are using these means because it may accomplish all of these.

Yes

 

[Pickman's model]

I see what you are saying and partially agree but if terrorists get one oil choke point then that food which was supposed to be delivered to your grocery store may not make it without gas. That would definitely hinder us in all aspects.

but don't the yankee imperialists import much of their oil pre-refined?

 

[scumbalina]

I see what you are saying and partially agree but if terrorists get one oil choke point then that food which was supposed to be delivered to your grocery store may not make it without gas. That would definitely hinder us in all aspects.

But that's long term impact...they want to have an instant effect, cause as much fear and panic as possible.

 

[Christian Man]

But that's long term impact...they want to have an instant effect, cause as much fear and panic as possible.

So you're saying they just don't think long term? I think individually you may be right, some of these terrorists may have short term anger and motives but I think the "movement" as a whole has long term goals.

 

[Christian Man]

but don't the yankee imperialists import much of their oil pre-refined?

Yes, much of it is already refined though, either way we need it to run our economy.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/..._petroleum_status_report/current/txt/wpsr.txt

 

[scumbalina]

So you're saying they just don't think long term?

No - I'm saying that the purpose of the bombings is to be high impact and instant.

 

[scumbalina]

I am a bit confused as to why this thread is addressed to the political left TBH?

 

[Christian Man]

Well yes I agree with that.

 

[scumbalina]

:d

 

[Christian Man]

I am a bit confused as to why this thread is addressed to the political left TBH?

Because I consider myself polically right (no pun intended) and I tended to think terrorists were mostly after war mongering Texan raised right wing Republicans, not your average Londoner on the subway or tourist from any country on a bus.

 

[scumbalina]

Because I consider myself polically right (no pun intended) and I always thought terrorists were mostly after war mongering Texan raised right wing Republicans, not your average Londoner on the subway or tourist from any country on a bus.

But I think anyone can have an opinion on that - being left wing doesn't give you any more insight does it?

 

[Christian Man]

But I think anyone can have an opinion on that - being left wing doesn't give you any more insight does it?

I have no clue, I'm just stirring up conversation for ideas, and yes everyone I'm sure has their opinions both left and right and unpolitical.

 

[soluble duck]

Because I consider myself polically right (no pun intended) and I always thought terrorists were mostly after war mongering Texan raised right wing Republicans, not your average Londoner on the subway or tourist from any country on a bus.

i think this point has already been made, so sorry

but I really don't think a terrorist differentiates between political ideologies among the population, its America the land of evil etc etc etc

 

[Christian Man]

i think this point has already been made, so sorry

but I really don't think a terrorist differentiates between political ideologies among the population, its America the land of evil etc etc etc

So basically stereotyping and over-generalizing, yes I definitely think thats a big part of the problem actually.

I was thinking that modern day Islam was like European Christianity back in the "dark ages" period, half pagan, half christian, very backward and superstitious and mostly full of fear of the new and unknown. imo

Anyway I have to get some errands done I may be back later tonight (US time)

 

[winterinmoscow]

We are all the enemy. QUOTE]

I think there's a lot in that. I don't think fanaticism/fundamentalism, whatever banner it marches under, sees details, it just sees everything in black and white.

I haven't read all this thread but it seems obvious why the bombers targeted London, it's the capital. Big population etc. If you want to blow something up and get maximum impact, then it seems a far more obvious choice than a smaller place. Grim, but seems logical enough.

 

[winterinmoscow]

Because I consider myself polically right (no pun intended) and I tended to think terrorists were mostly after war mongering Texan raised right wing Republicans, not your average Londoner on the subway or tourist from any country on a bus.

Yeah, but the bombing is about making a statement, isn't it? And where better to do that than what is seen as the centre of somewhere. More publicity and reaction in that, surely. The actual identities people messed up in it are pretty much immaterial to the bombers. It's surely more of a strike against the coutry rather than individual people

 

[scumbalina]

Just to point out...the North is not a right wing area, and the BNP don't really have that much of a presence, it's just they're a bit more active there than some other places. England isn't really as politically divided as the U.S, at least not too the same extent.
Is that a general view in the US?