Seminar Frustration
- Thread starter Dubversion
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes. I was amazed at how uninterested in their subject some were. But they were at uni primarily in search of a social life, so that's ok.Belushi said:
i guess to an extent, it's a function of the subject. Presumably if you're doing physics as a mature student, you're not going to know a whole lot more than the kids out of school. But stuff like politics and philosophy - i guess i've just been on the earth a lot longer and have thought about more of this stuff.. I didn't mean to sound scathing, i'm just really frustrated.
and I have to go to the seminars, they're assessed
and I have to go to the seminars, they're assessed
littlebabyjesus said:
Belushi said:
i think to be honest these are quite outdated models of the student population - the financial set-up now means most of my class are overseas students paying a fucking fortune, and even the younger uk kids (in this module at least) seem really committed
May Kasahara
take me to the feeling
PieEye said:I'm trying to squeeze Stewart Lee lines out
I fixed it for you
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
I know how this feels
This is one of my biggest problems about university.
I don't even know where to start with my complaints. I have been considering a thread similar to this myself.
I am either in a class full of fucking idiots, or in a class full on fucking idiots that is badly taught.
So few people have actual critical faculties. You can pick out easily who has done the reading and who hasn't, but its rare I have met somebody who has read stuff and engaged with it.
I don't know. I am doing everything I can but I am not getting the intellectual engagement out of it that I want.
Anyone doing a PG - Does this get better? Because I have a feeling things might just get more ridiculous the longer I go on.
This is one of my biggest problems about university.
I don't even know where to start with my complaints. I have been considering a thread similar to this myself.
I am either in a class full of fucking idiots, or in a class full on fucking idiots that is badly taught.
So few people have actual critical faculties. You can pick out easily who has done the reading and who hasn't, but its rare I have met somebody who has read stuff and engaged with it.
I don't know. I am doing everything I can but I am not getting the intellectual engagement out of it that I want.
Anyone doing a PG - Does this get better? Because I have a feeling things might just get more ridiculous the longer I go on.
May Kasahara
take me to the feeling
I have only just started my postgraduate, but yes, early indications are that it does get better The people in my writing seminar may not say much, but it doesn't seem to be out of lack of confidence/lack of thought; their contributions are pertinent and interesting, arguably more so than any of the shit I come out with 
The people in my writing seminar may not say much, but it doesn't seem to be out of lack of confidence/lack of thought; their contributions are pertinent and interesting, arguably more so than any of the shit I come out with the problem i have - and this relates to last time - is two-fold:
a) i'm not necessarily getting everything out of it i'd like
b) if the standard of seminars is this low, it makes me wonder about much the course is really 'worth' (in some abstract fucking way) and then I lose faith in it and then myself. Like, if people can come out with nonsense like that in seminars and still probably, then maybe i'm just wasting my time
a) i'm not necessarily getting everything out of it i'd like
b) if the standard of seminars is this low, it makes me wonder about much the course is really 'worth' (in some abstract fucking way) and then I lose faith in it and then myself. Like, if people can come out with nonsense like that in seminars and still probably, then maybe i'm just wasting my time
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Dubversion said:
The only advice I can offer, from my own experience, is that you can only get out of it what you put in.
Sure, there are morons or know-it-alls who ruin it. Some of the courses are badly taught.
But I stick with it because every so often, pretty rarely, there is something so interesting that I know I will never find in any other place.
I don't know though, I still have a lot of complaints, and I know exactly what you are saying.
I just hope that going to a better university (at Keele now, hoping to be at Edinburgh next year) to do a post grad, will improve things.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
This is going to sound very snobby and arrogant, but there is a huge gulf in achievement between a 1st and a 2.2.Dubversion said:
what smarts is that when i signed up all those years ago, i was pretty much ok for a place at the LSE but it looked like too much hard work, so i went for the easier option of Guildhall (now Metropolitan) cos I'd be less vexed and could still earn money. I now figure this was a mistake 
littlebabyjesus said:
i guess so. The theory is i'm online for a 1st, don't have to work that hard to get one based on my first 2 years. But if i get all frustrated and despondent about it again, i might just lose commitment
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
Dubversion said:what smarts is that when i signed up all those years ago, i was pretty much ok for a place at the LSE but it looked like too much hard work, so i went for the easier option of Guildhall (now Metropolitan) cos I'd be less vexed and could still earn money. I now figure this was a mistake
Same, I probably could have gone somewhere better. I didn't realise then that there was such a difference. I didn't really care then either.
Dubversion said:
The usual rule is your last year is worth 75% of the overall mark, so you do have to work that hard, consistently
How much do you want it?Dubversion said:But if i get all frustrated and despondent about it again, i might just lose commitment
Enough to get over your own personal hurdles? Or not enough that you'll let it slide because you let something like crap seminars get in the way of what you want?
I doubt if you could accurately describe seminars as 'progressive' as a teaching style. They go back a long way in history. The word itself is Latin in origin and the ancient Greeks used the method. They are not some sort of new gimmick.
Dubversion said:
a) It is early days, so don't get too disappointed just yet.
b) Attack! Attack Attack! In my recent undergrad degree I had reached the point you had (albeit a few more weeks in), and just decided to snarl and critique as and when neccessary. It was my degree, I paid a lot to do it, it meant a great deal to me, so what if the others couldn't keep up, or worked on such a basic level of understanding that it was laughable they were there in the first place? That's their damn problem. I found that the lecturers went with it - they were bored and wanted to be challenged. Sometimes, yeah, it lead to me having a discussion with the lecturer while the others sat there slack-jawed for 2 hours, but if they weren't going to make the effort, read the books and present an argument, they shouldn't be there.
You're not wasting your time, you're having your time wasted. It's well within your power to reverse this state of affairs. After all, you're not there to make friends, are you? And anyway, my approach didn't appear to make me unpopular per se, it just added a different dynamic to the group.
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
jbob said:
Pretty much how I cope with it. I might come out of there pissed off and occasionally let down, but I would go mental otherwise.
May Kasahara said:If it makes you feel any better, I have slipped back into my natural role as Breaker Of The Silence in my seminar group (Writing Fiction). There's me, and there's jbob, and we talk and talk and talk. Everyone else mostly just sits there, despite our tutor's repeated requests for 'anyone else?' to speak
I do enjoy that class. Funnily enough, my main literature module is very lively with some cracking arguments, hilarious moments, and amazing flights of imagination. It probably helps that it's 50% mature students (with me being the youngest!), which seems to encourage the younger ones to speak up more. Of course, there's still the seemingly essential sentinels of despair present, but it's not quite so marked as in the creative writing class. Before the course started I would have thought it was going to be the other way 'round. It seems absurd that a creative writing module attracts people who don't talk about writing passionately
Nice anti-George Eliot rant, btw. My Toby Litt one was very disappointing in comparison.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Sounds about right. If you're lucky the people asking stupid questions actually begin to realise that's what they're doing and pack it in when it dawns on them that they're making themselves look thick.drag0n said:
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
The best ones are usually the ones that are about 3-4 people meeting with the lecturer or something.
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