Sectarianism in Scotland

[inflatable jesus]

According to this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1825869.stm

Shettleston, Maryhill and Springburn are the worst in the UK

I used to be able to find a link to a EU or UN report that put two slum towns in Glasgow/ Lanarkshire and one in Dundee in the 5 worst in Europe in terms of the overall quality of life. I would presume that's out of every town in the whole EU JWH, but without a source I could just be talking pish.

I know these things are often misleading, but to me there's no doubt that there's some truly miserable housing schemes in this country. Personally, I've always found that there are links between living in shitty areas and experiencing senseless violence, but then I'm no academic and can't back that up with statistics.

 

[JWH]

there's no doubt that there's some truly miserable housing schemes in this country

Oh, no, not even beginning to disagree with that, I'm just being a statistics sceptic. Carry on!

 

[Alan G]

1) In your opinion, what's it going to take to stop catholics and protestants in this country to stop kicking the shit out of each other (and doing much worse) on a regular basis?

I don't think banning marches is the answer, or even part of the answer as the state would just use the measures to ban other marches. We faced this in Dundee where they tried to bump our may day parade to 8AM using an orange order parade given that time slot as a precedent.

Besides its equating the "loyalist" and "republican" parades as being equal, which at least on frequency terms they are anything but. The Orr report published earlier this year had statistics for 2001 of
800 "Orange" parades
21 "Catholic" parades (which I assume includes republican ones like Connolly march)
756 "Other"

so for every "Catholic" parade there are 38 "Orange" parades.

2) Are faith schools the reason why Sectarianism is so prevalent?

They arent *the* reason but I think they are a contributary factor as they lead to the seperation of kids along religious grounds, or at least are intended to do that, wether it works in practice or not. If you take kids at the age of 5 and seperate them from other kids of a different faith and at home they are hearing about "other sides" : fenian scum, hun scum or whatever then its only going to reinforce the alienation and the lack of class consciousness across religious differences.

I think a secular school system would help to fight but not completely end sectarianism. Even if it were "the answer" it would take at least a generation before kids were going through all their school life without this influence.

Personally I think that until more people start seeing their loyalties to others along class lines rather than religious lines the problem will continue.

3) What are your experiences of it?

Not much, mainly idiots asking what team I support? "Dundee United" yeah but Rangers or Celtic? "neither" no but really which do you prefer "a pox on both their houses", what school did you go to etc etc bullshit. Although people are correct to say it exists all over Scotland, in the South West it is highest.

4) Why is this a typically Scottish (and Northern Irish) problem?

Because of the emigration and immigration between the South West of Scotland and *mainly* the 6 counties and the immigration of Irish to Scotland meant that the sectarian attitudes which became so prevalent in Ireland started to cross contaminate back. The role of Scots in the imperialist colonisation and rule of Ireland is what I think has caused the problem to be mainly centered around the 6 counties and the South West of Scotland.

5) Who's going to win the SPL this year?

[/quote]
the multi millionaire chairmen of the clubs and the shareholders. Oh and Sky TV who will be able to get loads of money from advertising.

 

[Alan G]

Incidently theres a journal called Scottish Affairs which sometimes has some good articles on Sectarianism. I know Abertay Uni library has it so would assume Glasgow, Edinburgh etc have it too. I will point out a disclaimer that it seems to be a slightly left of the SNP affair which prints loads of stuff comparing Scotland to Catalonia and the Basque country etc, although occassionally some SWP/ex SWP write for it too.

49, Autumn 2004
Catholic Socio-Economic Disadvantage in the West of Scotland: A Narrowing of Inequality, Joanne Abbotts, Rory Williams, Patrick West, Kate Hunt and Graeme Ford (this issue also has an article about the role of working class Scots in fundraising for the Miners Strike which is quite good)

42, Winter 2003
Challenging Sectarianism in Scotland: The Prism of Racism, Elinor Kelly

39, Spring 2002
Sectarianism and Municipal Housing Allocation in Glasgow, Iain Paterson

29, Autumn 1999
Social Divisions and the Social Impact of Catholic Schools, Steve Bruce

12, Summer 1995
Racism, Sectarianism and Football in Scotland, John Horne

 

[Sue]

Ironic that Catholic schools were enshrined in the state sector (sometime after the end of the WWI I think) as a response to poor educational achievement by children in Catholic schools which had themselves been set up because of anti-Irish/catholic sentiment.

Don't think segregated schooling is the main thing behind all this but it really doesn't help.