Secret copyright treaty leaks and the internet. It's bad. Very bad.

[Obnoxiousness]

Youtube is spending massive amounts on hosting videos for freeloaders, that's why.

It is a fact that web sites make revenue from advertising. I know of sites, perhaps only getting 1000 unique visitors per day, that make over a hundred pounds per month. These are sites that are perhaps ranked 2,000,000th in the scheme of things.

U75 is in the top 85,000 sites, which means that it's unique visitors must be far in excess of 1000 per day. Therefore with the right advertising applied it would make money.

If youtube is losing money, then this proves that it has an unsustainable business model.

 

[boskysquelch]

wake-up

 

[Obnoxiousness]

It's not me that needs to wake up.

 

[debaser]

Artists can surely only gain here Urb. This is just the big distributors who are scared shitless that their sown-up distribution network is threatened by the possibility of people not having to depend on them. As a platform to promote work the internet is second to none.

and then, apparently, File-sharers spend more on music.. If its worth paying for people will pay for it, downloaded games and music has led to every purchase I've made of both for last the few years. If you wrote a book, put it online and people liked it.. It would sell and you would make money.

Wolverine despite being leaked weeks before its realise still busted a few blocks with the amount of money it made. Their business models need to change for the net internet, I can't believe there still struggling so pitifully against it.

 

[GoneCoastal]

And yet the current proposals for copyright law reform seems to be leaning towards copyright removal or at least opening up for potentially unlicensed re-use etc. http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=870617

 

[boskysquelch]

It's not me that needs to wake up.

freeloading ain't free

 

[Obnoxiousness]

So, I wanted to watch a film... but rather than going to Amazon or Play.com to buy the DVD, putting money in the pocket of the people who created the movie... I searched for "FilmTitle Part 1" on youtube.

I watched the film on youtube and kept my money in my pocket. Youtube loses money (coz allegedly they aren't making any) from the bandwidth I burnt, Amazon loses money, the film creators lose money..... BUT IT'S OK, because I have watched the film and got the urge to see the film out of my system.

This is unsustainable.

 

[Lo Siento.]

It's not me that needs to wake up.

to what? So far you´ve just put up a load of straw men and hypotheticals. You´ve yet to give us an example that isn´t borne of your imagination...

 

[boskysquelch]

This is unsustainable.

no shit Sherlock ...& yes it's OK

 

[longdog]

It is a fact that web sites make revenue from advertising. I know of sites, perhaps only getting 1000 unique visitors per day, that make over a hundred pounds per month.

Is that 1000 motivated potential buyers or 1000 argumentative bastards motivated only to call each other cunts?

I find it hard to believe that in the long term anybody is going to spend £100 per week for an audience of 7000 people.

That 7000 figure of course assumes that people only visit the site once a week, which if it's such a great site I assume isn't the case.

 

[Obnoxiousness]

to what? So far you´ve just put up a load of straw men and hypotheticals. You´ve yet to give us an example that isn´t borne of your imagination...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_marketing

Do you really think that it is the norm for people to put up web sites, just for your entertainment?

 

[boskysquelch]

so ... shall we move quickly along to the fact that this is a maneuver to actually gain control over the entire content of the Net.

This has been going on for nearly a decade now...slowly slowly catch teh monkey.

Been fun hasn't it?

 

[Lo Siento.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_marketing

Do you really think that it is the norm for people to put up web sites, just for your entertainment?

what? What the hell has that got to do with the sustainability or otherwise of the internet as it is?

 

[Obnoxiousness]

I'm not getting into specifics, because I wish to remain anonymous.

But if you know how to get niche traffic from the search engines, and can provide a targeted sponsor for content that is not available for free elsewhere, then you can make money.

 

[Lo Siento.]

I'm not getting into specifics, because I wish to remain anonymous.

But if you know how to get niche traffic from the search engines, and can provide a targeted sponsor for content that is not available for free elsewhere, then you can make money.

but what does this have to do with the sustainability of the internet?

 

[Obnoxiousness]

what? What the hell has that got to do with the sustainability or otherwise of the internet as it is?

The motivation for putting up quality content, that requires time, money and skill to produce is to get more money to sustain the cycle of producing new content.

 

[editor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_marketing

Do you really think that it is the norm for people to put up web sites, just for your entertainment?

It's what I've been doing for years on end.

 

[Obnoxiousness]

It's what I've been doing for years on end.

But you are the exception to the rule, and you know you are the exception.

 

[editor]

I am attempting to illustrate my point..... using U75 as an example. So you don't think it would work? Why?

If the Editor put banners all over this site... he would certainly make money from it.

If I put adverts all over urban, I'd never have to work again, and would enjoy a very comfortable lifestyle.

 

[Obnoxiousness]

If I put adverts all over urban, I'd never have to work again, and would enjoy a very comfortable lifestyle.

Exactly.

I'm sure you could walk into any London advertising agency and they'd bite your hand off.

Likewise if you went the affiliate route.

 

[boskysquelch]

boring

 

[longdog]

If I put adverts all over urban, I'd never have to work again, and would enjoy a very comfortable lifestyle.

What percentage (if any) of page impressions do you think you would lose if you accepted advertising?

 

[Obnoxiousness]

My whole point is.... Web 2.0 is basically a two way street... you can download stuff and you can upload stuff... Youtube is good for that. And if it's a video uploaded by you explaining how you make bird tables for Christmas presents than that's fine and is sharing knowledge, which is good.

But when you upload a whole feature film in ten minute sections onto Youtube, that is theft. You do not own the movie.

If someone went into the Naked Urbanites thread and pulled every photograph off there and re-uploaded them onto a web site with porn banners above each one... you would be very fucking pissed off, wouldn't you?

Can you see my point now?

 

[Obnoxiousness]

What percentage (if any) of page impressions do you think you would lose if you accepted advertising?

But would the people that you lost, be the people who were just burning bandwidth, clearing the way for the people who would use their credit cards to buy stuff related to the content that each page had on it?

 

[Obnoxiousness]

Another *example* would be Google Ads on a forum like this....

This thread is called Would you ever pay £890 for a pram?

If the Editor placed Google Ads into the template of this forum, then it would automatically display Pram adverts or perhaps baby related products on each page. If you had enough traffic backed up with search engine traffic then someone who was in the market for a pram would indeed find the thread interesting and then click on an advert to get even more information and perhaps purchase something.

This is how most of the internet works.

 

[john x]

But would the people that you lost, be the people who were just burning bandwidth, clearing the way for the people who would use their credit cards to buy stuff related to the content that each page had on it?

The problem ed would have if he sold ad space on here, is that a significant reason for the success of this site is it's radicalism and refreshing lack of commercialism. If you looked at the join date of most of the active posters on here, you will see that loyalty to this site is very strong.

Unless it became a specialist site it would never generate the traffic it has now.

john x

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I watched the film on youtube and kept my money in my pocket. Youtube loses money (coz allegedly they aren't making any) from the bandwidth I burnt, Amazon loses money, the film creators lose money..... BUT IT'S OK, because I have watched the film and got the urge to see the film out of my system.

But this just is not true.

Youtube loses a tiny amount of money if you don't click on any ads, but then most people don't. Amazon do not lose money. Film creators do not lose money.

This is the industry straw man that they repeatedly present; that every time something is viewed for free, it would otherwise have been bought, and there is no possible positive element. It's just bollocks.

If you want a proven unsustainable business model you should perhaps look at the media companies, who charge an increasing amount of money for things which cost them increasingly less to create and distribute, and every time a new format comes along, want to charge you for that again. It's such a bad model that now they're having to try to get the government to bring in legislation to support it. It's like the car industry lobbying to make it illegal to carry passengers.

 

[Obnoxiousness]

I appreciate that.... as I have said earlier, U75 is the exception to the rule. I can remember reading about U75 in Internet Magazine in the late 1990s, and even back then it was unusual for a site to carry zero advertising.

My point is that a lot of markets have been squeezed by content theft, made legal by loopholes. And if the money is not there to be made, then people producing the content will walk away and find another job.

 

[longdog]

Another *example* would be Google Ads on a forum like this....

This thread is called Would you ever pay £890 for a pram?

If the Editor placed Google Ads into the template of this forum, then it would automatically display Pram adverts or perhaps baby related products on each page. If you had enough traffic backed up with search engine traffic then someone who was in the market for a pram would indeed find the thread interesting and then click on an advert to get even more information and perhaps purchase something.

This is how most of the internet works.

That's all well and good but if 90% of the posters left who's going to provide the content?

I think you're giving our inane ramblings more importance than they deserve.

If I was looking for a pram (god forbid) I'd possibly read through a thread on sprogmobile.net but I'm not sure u75 would be my first choice any more than if I was in the market for cat food I'd look to 4chan for advice.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Traditional web ads are increasingly useless anyway. Generally the smart opinion is that they'll be useless in a year or two for anything apart from a hobby project that occasionally provides a little cash, and not a significant part of any profit-making online business model. Even at the moment they're just something you stick on a page because you might as well.