tangerinedream
Density of Sound
But would you bat him at 5 which he'd need to in a team with 5 bowlers. Which other batsman would you drop? I think Thorpe was definately a superior player to Collingwood.
Second Test thread: Eng vs NZ, Old Trafford
- Thread starter agricola
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But would you bat him at 5 which he'd need to in a team with 5 bowlers. Which other batsman would you drop? I think Thorpe was definately a superior player to Collingwood.
jugularvein
extra
he's also a positive influence in the dressing room and when we're fielding.
i'd wait to seee how broad's bowling develops as he has scored some invaluable runs. if it's not come on to a level that wouldn't be picked off in an ashes perhaps colly would be the answer, with more an onus on the other bowlers. agree with td's team in general though
middle order still looks shaky. can freddie still bat?
we need a successor to alec stewart. or bring him back!
I think Broad should be allowed to open the bowling - he has pace and bounce and should pick up quite a few scalps with the new ball. Anderson still doesn't have enough control - if England wish to persist with him perhaps they should give him a nice long run in the one day team. Until he can bowl 7 or 8 overs with a new ball without getting carted around the park he shouldn't be let near a Test again - the runs he lets the opposition get in the first hour give them a huge mental boost, like Trescothick's early hitting used to give England.
I don't really have a problem with Anderson or Broad being in the team, just not at the same time. Anderson can be very effective on his day but bowls too many four-balls. Broad is one for the future and is handy with the bat and in the field. It's just that when they are both in the team our seam attack looks lightweight. Given 4 of the top 6 run scorers so far this year are South African I really think the selectors need to make some changes.
With things as they stand, I don't think England could field a team with 5 bowlers; the balance just isn't there. Flintoff's batting is apparently shot, and he's probably the only international-standard all-rounder available atm. IMO, he'd either have to go in to replace Anderson (and bat at 8, with Broad dropping to 9), or not play at all. I haven't heard that his recent form with the bat could justify him at 6 or 7.
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
Well, yeah, but recent form is about 6 innings after a long lay off - remember, we are talking about a years time where in ideal circumstances he'll be back to something like his best. Of course, he may not be! The problem is, can he or Jones stand up to being part of a 4 man attack? - It's a catch 22.
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
I dunno, Broad has control and a bit of pace but he's neither terrifying nor metronomic yet. I think he's a good bowler, possibly an excellent one in the making but I think it's a bit much to expect him to lead the attack against the Aussies. I'd expect Ryan, Freddie, Hoggy and Jones all to be ahead of him in the queue for the new ball. It might however be something to try against NZ and I could well be wrong. I like Broad as a 1st change bowler, keep the pressure on, bowls good long spells fairly cheaply - I think he could be asked to do that against Aus but main strike bowler, no.
(imo)
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
Mind you, for all my chat abou droppig Collingwood, I'm broadly supportive of the decision to retain struggling players - I believe it be more productive to give players who've proved themselves (ala colly) a chance to get back into form than have a revolving door of out, in, out, in as we had in the grimmer days pre Hussain/Fletcher.
Never mind Fred's batting, if he's fit he plays as a bowler alone who may or may not club a few. Broad isn't the finished article yet I'd play Jones who is getting rave reviews again, and bring back Hoggy for Jimmeh.
Colly is shockingly out of sorts (never really rated him anyway tbh) I'd get Bopara or Shah in to sure up the lower order. Great to see Strauss back to his best, genuine world-class opener.
Cook
Strauss
Mick
KPP
Bell
Shah/Bobara
Some Wicket Keeper Or Other *shrugs*
Fred
Jonah
Frank
Monty
..would be my team for SA. Will it be the team? Probably not. I at least want to see the back of Jimmeh, for Hoggy, and Fred for Broad though.
Colly is shockingly out of sorts (never really rated him anyway tbh) I'd get Bopara or Shah in to sure up the lower order. Great to see Strauss back to his best, genuine world-class opener.
Cook
Strauss
Mick
KPP
Bell
Shah/Bobara
Some Wicket Keeper Or Other *shrugs*
Fred
Jonah
Frank
Monty
..would be my team for SA. Will it be the team? Probably not. I at least want to see the back of Jimmeh, for Hoggy, and Fred for Broad though.
I agree in principle, but not at the expense of talent. Colly has had a fair crack and despite the 200 (not chanceless by any means) hasn't really impressed me. And if he's struggling against NZ (with respect) how will he fair against SA?
Give Shah a proper go.
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
It's got to be Bopara imo as I really don't think you can have 4 man attack with Fred and Jones.
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
If Adil Rashid came through he could be the all round answer. Problem is, it would be at the expense of Monty... Having said that he is averaging 17 and 69 the wrong way round this year!
But likewise I don't think you can pick Bopara just because he can bowl a bit. It's a tricky one.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Jones has no chance of being picked. He's only bowled about 30 overs this season. Simply can't and won't be picked on those terms.
Tim Bresnan is someone who won't be picked but is having a good season with bat and ball.
230 runs at an average of 71.00 batting down the order for Yorkshire, and 17 wickets at an average of 22.94. The last couple of seasons he's improved no end and at 23 years old might be pushing for Freddy's spot in the next few years.
Tim Bresnan is someone who won't be picked but is having a good season with bat and ball.
230 runs at an average of 71.00 batting down the order for Yorkshire, and 17 wickets at an average of 22.94. The last couple of seasons he's improved no end and at 23 years old might be pushing for Freddy's spot in the next few years.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
"A bit" being the operative word!
Bresnan, eh? What sort of bowler is he?
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Right arm medium fast. He's played the odd one day game for England and 20/20, but not really done himself any favours unfortunately.
http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/england/content/player/9310.html
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
Aye, but we are talking about the Ashes if you read what I put, not the next test match. Bresnan has only made 50 once this year and most of the average comes from him being not out. Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound as grumpy as it does.
Colly is not much of a bowler unless conditions suit; Bell can do a similar job and Mick is not to bad at the off-spin. Between them you have a fifth bowler of sorts.
Maybe it is too early for Jones though, what with Fred just coming back as you intimate. Hoggard then.
Jimmeh has to go he's never going to be consistent.
Broad has balls and can bat but is a bit way of the article yet.
Bell's bowling is no way comparable to Collingwood's, plus Mick has showed no desire to bowl since his injury.
Four bowlers is fine if they are four good bowlers, you really only need all rounders when your front line bowlers are not up to scratch.
Anderson has to be replaced with somone with pace IMO.
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
IF two of them are Anderson and Broad then that's plainly not good enough.
If you swap Anderson and Broad for Flintoff/Jones + Hoggy then you can't trust that unit not to break down (and is hoggy really in the best 4?). I'm almost convinced we need 5 bowlers. We don't have 4 world class bowlers that have decent enough fitness records.
tangerinedream
Density of Sound
Aye, but we are talking about the Ashes if you read what I put, not the next test match. Bresnan has only made 50 once this year and most of the average comes from him being not out. Sorry, I didn't mean that to sound as grumpy as it does.
Bresnan made 64no for Yorkshire in the roses match yesterday. Also took a wicket.
TrippyLondoner
Well-Known Member
Turns out england have named an unchanged squad for the next test.
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