Leafster
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Poor choice of wording on my part. I was struggling with my words as I often do!
Scrappage is through
- Thread starter Bob_the_lost
- Start date
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
my car qualifies for this as it's 11 years old, and I've owned it for more than a year, but I don't want a new car, I'd prefer to spend about £3k on a used car, when i do come to replace this one, and I want to keep this one for a few years yet, the scheme would only be of use to me if I wanted to spend about £8k on a £10k car, which I don't
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
Bugger, doesn't apply to motorbikes then. Not that I could have afforded it anyway really.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
So, if you go out today and buy an old banger, you'll get £2k plus a cheaper nearly new car?
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Ah, bugger.
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
you'd have to own the banger for a year, then swap it for a new or nearly new car - so it could lead to a fair few people doing that - which could boost the second hand car business
I don't think it will really, because the scheme is only scheduled to last until March next year - 11 months away. It's just a short-term measure to give new car sales a bit of a lift through the worst of the recession.
Nor do I think it will lead to a lot of the oldest cars in regular use (£500 bangers, basically) being scrapped, because most people who run them on a daily basis are those who can't afford much else, certainly not a new car even with a £2,000 discount.
It'll be the ten-year-old cars that go; vehicles that are modern, worth a couple of thousand pounds, still in daily use, often compliant with modern emissions regulations and with several years' useful life left in them. It's a real waste IMO.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
There is certainly a lot potentially true about this, but if the ten year old car is still worth a couple of thousand pounds, what would be the point in scrapping it for £2000?
I should have phrased that a bit more carefully and said 'up to two thousand.'
There are a lot of older vehicles - models still in production in some cases - that are too new to be described as 'old bangers' and sell for £1,000-2,000. It'll be them that go, IMO.<e2a> As an experiment I've just put a few popular vehicles into Parker's price guide - Ford Ka, Toyota Avensis etc - and for 2000 models (which is the oldest they'll give a free price guide for) most of them fall into the £1,000-2,000 bracket.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Yes, that's what ours falls into. It's at the bottom of your price range, is 11 years old but still runs perfectly and is a good car. It certainly meets emissions standards and gets about 30mpg.I should have phrased that a bit more carefully and said 'up to two thousand.'
In truth, we probably won't get rid of it because even £1000 isn't much incentive to buy a new car -- if we wait 2 years then it will be worth £500 less but we'll have saved ourselves 2 years' depreciation on a new car IYSWIM. But it is certainly causing me pause for thought.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I suppose you lot are right about the generalisations I made.
I really made them thinking of my own situation. I only had a new car when it was a company car.
All my own cars have been second or third hand costing between £1k - £3k and I cannot imagine spending more than that on a car.
For me then, the generalisation that I can talk about
this scheme will not persuade me to trade in my current 14year old car (value apparently £650) for a new one which is likely to still cost me more than £3k after the £2k scrappage is taken into account.
Or is that wrong?
I really made them thinking of my own situation. I only had a new car when it was a company car.
All my own cars have been second or third hand costing between £1k - £3k and I cannot imagine spending more than that on a car.
For me then, the generalisation that I can talk about
this scheme will not persuade me to trade in my current 14year old car (value apparently £650) for a new one which is likely to still cost me more than £3k after the £2k scrappage is taken into account. Or is that wrong?
moose
like some cat from Japan
In Germany they used up the first 1.5 billion euro really rapidly, and had to increase the amount in the pot to 5 billion euro.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
The money allocated would cover 300,000 cars. We buy 2.7 million annually on average. This is a shit year, say half that. 1.3 million. Could be gone in months.
Cheapest car i'd be looking at is a Hyundai i10. 7k OTR. 5k for a new car is geting to the point where i'd consider it over a 3k second hand one which was my plan before scrapping became an issue.
Cheapest car i'd be looking at is a Hyundai i10. 7k OTR. 5k for a new car is geting to the point where i'd consider it over a 3k second hand one which was my plan before scrapping became an issue.
We've got a 10 year old car which is pretty fucked and we're looking to get rid of it this year and buy something newer. However, we were planning to get something a few years old, not brand spanking new.
The scrappage thing is giving me some pause for thought about buying new, but given our car is worth a few hundred quid, and it's going to be fairly hard to negotiate a discount on top of scrappage, it probably only amounts to an actual discount of about £500 - not enough to make us change our minds about buying second hand.
Also does the "scrapped" car actually get scrapped? For someone with a bit of mechanical knowledge, there's still a bit of life in our old car and it just seems a waste. I'd sooner it was sold on to someone else.
The scrappage thing is giving me some pause for thought about buying new, but given our car is worth a few hundred quid, and it's going to be fairly hard to negotiate a discount on top of scrappage, it probably only amounts to an actual discount of about £500 - not enough to make us change our minds about buying second hand.
Also does the "scrapped" car actually get scrapped? For someone with a bit of mechanical knowledge, there's still a bit of life in our old car and it just seems a waste. I'd sooner it was sold on to someone else.
King Biscuit Time
Well-Known Member
In Germany they used up the first 1.5 billion euro really rapidly, and had to increase the amount in the pot to 5 billion euro.
But they *make* shedloads of Cars in Germany. So the money the government sticks in pays off double because it helps both the car retail and car manufacture businesses. They're bound to throw more money at it.
Here - we're helping the car dealers, but chances are, we're also helping manufacturers abroad. It's not such good value for the taxpayer.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Not sure I agree Hal.
If people were in any case going to buy new, whatever, they still will and if they are lucky and have an old vehicle they can scrap in for £2k then they will.
But others, who would have bought a used car, will they be persuaded to buy new rather than used?
If people were in any case going to buy new, whatever, they still will and if they are lucky and have an old vehicle they can scrap in for £2k then they will.
But others, who would have bought a used car, will they be persuaded to buy new rather than used?
As cybertect, beeboo and I said earlier, those who were planning on buying a slightly used car and have a car that's over 10 years old, this £2K *could* swing it into buying a new car.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Ok, so let me try some math.
My car a middle range turbo diesel hatchback is worth £650 apparently. Say I can sell it for that and buy a used turbo diesel Mondeo hatchback for £3k, I am out of pocket £2,350 and I have replaced my old middle of the road hatch with a more modern one.
If I still want a middle range TD hatch but am looking at a new one surely I will be paying some £10k for a new turbo diesel Mondeo hatchback, but I am then getting £2k off my old car leaving me £8,000 out of pocket.
It only makes sense if I buy a very budget new vehicle and get a good discount on the price but I don't want such a vehicle, I want something like I have at the moment.
You say, "this £2K *could* swing it into buying a new car." and I agree. I just can't see it swinging people like me
But there are quite a few car factories in the UK, too - which (according to someone above) are 80% exported.
So does anyone actually have any reliable figures for whether there are net imports or exports of cars from this country?
Ok, so let me try some math.
My car a middle range turbo diesel hatchback is worth £650 apparently. Say I can sell it for that and buy a used turbo diesel Mondeo hatchback for £3k, I am out of pocket £2,350 and I have replaced my old middle of the road hatch with a more modern one.
If I still want a middle range TD hatch but am looking at a new one surely I will be paying some £10k for a new turbo diesel Mondeo hatchback, but I am then getting £2k off my old car leaving me £8,000 out of pocket.
It only makes sense if I buy a very budget new vehicle and get a good discount on the price but I don't want such a vehicle, I want something like I have at the moment.
You say, "this £2K *could* swing it into buying a new car." and I agree. I just can't see it swinging people like me
I accept that, and it would seem we have the same car as I also have a Diesel Est trade in £650, but my budget is £5000 ignoring any trade-in/resale of old car.
Yes, I would still have to downgrade the car/model to buy new, and am/was looking for a Mondeo or similar too, but the differential for me is much less.
Your numbers are a bit mixed. You're already planning on spending £3000 ish with a trade-in so outlay of £2350. This equates to buying new with the scrappage benefit and spending £8000, so the differential outlay is £5650. (8000 - 2350)
In this scenario, you spend £5650 more but get a value of replacement car = £7K more. Most likely not worth it to you, but for me the parallels are much less difference in outlay and only a £650 increase in anticipated outlay, but a brand new car.
(As it goes, my car is only 8+ years old so I can't go this route
)
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
except of course that a modern car is more fuel efficent, more recyleable and get's better mpg than anything produced in the last 10 years...
so more un informed toss as per then...
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I have to say that I think editor you are just anti car by conviction and even if a totally clean car was produced you would still be agin it on principle. But lots of people do love the freedom that cars, or motorcycles for that matter, give them, and what is wrong with that?
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
oh god don't get him started we'll be on this one all night and he needs his sleep or he'll be all grouchy tomorrow...
1) externalities
2) congestion
3) I enjoy cream cakes, but no-one thinks the government should give me a thousand quid voucher to keep buying them
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
There is the other side of this in that the car businesses are going bust and that costs us anyway so is it better to spend money now in the hope thay they keep their jobs and therefore cost the country a lot less overall?
Lots of people being unemployed is very expensive.
moose
like some cat from Japan
(As it goes, my car is only 8+ years old so I can't go this route
You can with Nissan - they're offering the scrappage incentive on cars over 8 years old.
The government last night said they weren't going to extend the scheme, successful or not, so it really is limited to just 300,000 car buyers, unless the manufacturers decide to carry it on.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
How much are they, then?
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
sure but other than the jaguar and aston martin both owned by ford (until they are sold at least) and who don't employ a significant number of people (except by definition local to their plants) we don't have a car manufacturing base in the uk.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
The most obvious criticism of this reasoning is the fact that you will have to replace your £3000 car several years sooner than a brand new one. You have to factor the number of replacement cycles into your figures. If you end up replacing a £3000 car twice during the lifetime of a brand new car, it may have been better to take the scrappage deal.Ok, so let me try some math.
My car a middle range turbo diesel hatchback is worth £650 apparently. Say I can sell it for that and buy a used turbo diesel Mondeo hatchback for £3k, I am out of pocket £2,350 and I have replaced my old middle of the road hatch with a more modern one.
If I still want a middle range TD hatch but am looking at a new one surely I will be paying some £10k for a new turbo diesel Mondeo hatchback, but I am then getting £2k off my old car leaving me £8,000 out of pocket.
It only makes sense if I buy a very budget new vehicle and get a good discount on the price but I don't want such a vehicle, I want something like I have at the moment.
You say, "this £2K *could* swing it into buying a new car." and I agree. I just can't see it swinging people like me
Ifs and ifs and ifs.
