Scottish Independance

[lewislewis]

And what happens to faslane ?Plus the air force bases .The scottish regiment
might form the basis for a scottish army ,but,What about all the logistics types
etc.
Scotland and England are stronger together than apart .It would be an exspensive muddle that would acheive little imho.

Stronger to do what? Bomb the shit out of Afghanistan or Iraq?

Those far-off wars need not be any of Scotland's (or for example Wales's) affair.

I would go so far to suggest Scotland does not need any armed forces, apart from a nominal security contingent or defence force. The SNP's policy is to scrap the nuclear weapons. The SNP's policy for the Scottish armed forces is to equip them with the Scottish percentage of the UK armed forces budget. I am quite sure all of the non-Army military assets (RAF and Royal Navy) will have to be handed back to England.

These military issues are quite inconsequential and are a distraction from the actual gains Scotland will have economically from independence, and politically in the capacity to make it's own laws. In particular, I hope Scotland is able to go in a more progressive direction than the UK state is going, mainly I hope Scotland will redistribute wealth and fund good public services through higher taxation. But that's up for Scotland's people to decide of course : )

I presume independence would be negotiated under the SNP's terms.

 

[Dave Mullen]

My only problem with the SNP is that they would still retain the Queen as head of state. If indenpendence is gained a referendum should take place on becoming a republic.

 

[diego]

I always thought that Troon was a genteel respectable sort of area but now Mad Dog is in town I've revised my opinion.

As I understand the Ayrshire area in general is home to many protestants some very hardcore.

 

[diego]

My only problem with the SNP is that they would still retain the Queen as head of state. If indenpendence is gained a referendum should take place on becoming a republic.

Well I don't see that as a problem as I am sure the Scots would want to go all the way once they get independance (so long as the rangers fans don't get a vote in that referendum)!

 

[dylanredefined]

Without a naval presence how do you enforce fishing boundries etc ?And if tax gets increased on oil /gas they could always ship it to england or norway.
Snp might find it a lot harder to run the country than they thought.Wish them luck but I can see it costing a packet and making us all poorer .

 

[savoloysam]

Anybody see that pathetic attempt at a debate? I don't think Alex Salmond let Alistair Darling complete one sentence. The political equviavalent of the the school yard kid with his hands on his ears screaming "la la la I'm listening"

 

[Quartz]

We're all discussing it in the other thread.

 

[DotCommunist]

here

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/will-you-vote-for-independence.287096/page-155#post-13359280

 

[danny la rouge]

Anybody see that pathetic attempt at a debate? I don't think Alex Salmond let Alistair Darling complete one sentence. The political equviavalent of the the school yard kid with his hands on his ears screaming "la la la I'm listening"

You bump an 8-year-old thread where there are current ones on the go, including a very long one in the Scotland forum?

 

[danny la rouge]

here

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/will-you-vote-for-independence.287096/page-155#post-13359280

And this one has the advantage of the correct spelling.

 

[savoloysam]

You bump an 8-year-old thread where there are current ones on the go, including a very long one in the Scotland forum?

No your eyes are deceiving you.

 

[danny la rouge]

No your eyes are deceiving you.

Apologies if someone I'm ignoring bumped it.

 

[Sue]

Apologies if someone I'm ignoring bumped it.

I'm not ignoring anybody and the previous last post was from 2006 so not sure I understand savoloysam's post.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm not ignoring anybody and the previous last post was from 2006 so not sure I understand savoloysam's post.

Nor his bump.

Ah, well. Moving on.

 

[savoloysam]

 

[AnandLeo]

The Scottish nationalists want an independent Scotland primarily for nationalistic reasons. They are unhappy with the ruling from Westminster in spite of the Scottish parliament with devolved powers, and not forgetting that Scotland is truly represented by Scottish MPs in the Westminster Parliament. They have had even Prime Ministers of the UK who are Scottish MPs. However, the history suggests some three hundred years ago the Scotland was an independent country. So there is a historical reason for Scotland to strive for independence. Aside that there are differences mainly in welfare and defence policies of the Scottish independence movement and the UK government. The nationalists declare that they are driving independence for the sake of future generations.
There are obstacles such as uncertainty of currency of independent Scotland, and fallacy of independent Scotland espousing the rule with EU. The effect of currency uncertainty will be a short-term issue when thinking of 50 years ahead.
The revenue from North Sea oil debated with vigour is only a minor issue when looking to fifty years ahead. The revenue from North Sea oil and gas to independent Scottish government for the next 25 years for instance is only a moderate sum, whereas the contribution to the Scottish economy will be greater. The latter economic benefits of oil and gas to Scotland will be there whether independent or not.
The independence, the Scottish nationalists are claiming is a long-term prospect. In a long-term perspective I don’t think anyone can speculate how independent Scotland will fare in 50 years time. Scotland will thrive without nuclear weapons. However, their ambitious welfare state has to be supported by revenue from economic prosperity. Many people of present generation voting soon should be concerned with the wellbeing of them and their families, whereas the perspective of independence is a much longer-term objective envisioned to the future. The alternative progressive path to independence suggests a traditional evolution of independence that allows smoother transition with less uncertainties.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Tl:dr

 

[el-ahrairah]

don't bother, it doesn't really cohere.

 

[articul8]

I'd vote yes if I was in Scotland

 

[Sasaferrato]

Let's hope they do! Blasphemy of blasphemies, us and the Jocks are better off together than apart.

Good article in 'Prospect' about independence. If Scotland goes it alone, they'll probably intergrate into Europe (as Eire are doing) which, if you don't like the Euro mega-state that's emerging, isn't a good thing.

Union was a mutually beneficial arangement. Unlike Ireland, it was not conquest, and Scotland negotiated its own entry-terms. Union brought Scotland a great deal of wealth and the British army some proper hard bastards and the only decent philosophers England's ever going to get.

Devolution was delivered in a cack-handed and blatently unequal way. I wonder if Labour was keen to dissolve the Union. If not they laid the groundwork for it. Britain could work as a federal country like Germany, the US and Australia, with Welsh, English and Scottish parliaments, on equal terms, subordinate to a British congress. (Gladstone proposed this way back in the 1880s.) As it is we've got mutual loathing and the West Loathian question.

This mess is going to be sorted out, and it'll probably be by Scottish independence, but it didn't have to be this way.

Wee Fat Eck isn't intending to ask the people of Scotland, if we wish to be part of the EU. In common with the rest of his delusional behaviour, he is in favour, so the rest of us must be too.

IIRC, this will be the third referendum in my lifetime, after the previous ones, the SNP were in the political wilderness for twenty years. Thankfully, history does repeat itself.