Scottish Churches- can anyone explain?

[pogofish]

WW2 - not sure but religion definetly featured
Spanish Inquistion - religion
Crusades - religion
Burning Times - religion
Cromwell stuff - religion involved (possibly politics too)
Ireland 'troubles' - religion
Middle East troubles(for 2000 yrs) - religion

WW2 - Ideological/political/territorial rather than outright religion more like.

Spanish Inquistion - Depends, they were born out of a political power struggle within the church (Albigensians) & remained active over several centuries - sometimes working to a religious agenda but at other times to blatently political ends - eg the supression of Napoleon's followers.

Crusades - Were every bit as much about consolidating the differing power blocks within Europe at the time as they were about religion itself.

Burning Times - Not a war & arguably as much about sexual/societal power as religion.

English Civil War - Unquestionably politics first, religion second.

Middle East - Probably very arguable but IMO, a hell of a lot of the modern conflict derives from unsuitable political/geographic structures imposed on the region at the behest of Western powers.

 

[lang rabbie]

Although historically, there have been two major areas of distinction between the Presbyterian churches in Scotland - their atttitue to Roman Catholicism and their atttitude to "Establishment" i.e. state control (the main issue on which the Free Kirk originally seceded) , I suspect that even if the Kirk of Scotland were to be disestablished tomorrow, many Free Church congregations would remain separate because they have actually evolved into something much closer to an American Baptist/Gospel church, with a very different style of worship.

On atttitude to Roman Catholicism, back in 1986, the Kirk of Scotland dropped the requirement for members to subscribe to the "Catholic-bashing" elements of the Westminster Confession.

The General Assembly declare as follows:-

1. This Church no longer affirms the following contents of the Westminster Confession of Faith:
Chap. 22, Section 7
‘Popish monastical vows of perpetual single life, professed poverty and regular obedience are so far from being degrees of higher perfection, that they are superstitious and sinful snares in which no Christian may entangle himself.’
Chap. 24, Section 3
‘… such as profess the true reformed religion should not marry with Infidels, Papists or other idolators.’
Chap. 25, Section 6
‘He (the Pope of Rome) is Antichrist, that Man of Sin and Son of Perdition, that exalteth himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God.’
Chap. 29, Section 2
‘… so that the Popish Sacrifice of the Mass (as they call it) is most abominably injurious to Christ’s one only Sacrifice, the alone Propitiation for all the sins of the Elect.’
2. This Church therefore dissociates itself from the above statements and does not require its office-bearers to believe them.

Statements about upholding the full text of the Westminster Confession of some other denominations need to be seen in this light.

 

[inflatable jesus]

As a Scottish former Catholic, I sometimes wonder if the notion of protestantism is inevitably doomed. Okay, it's true that the Catholic church was and is a hopelessly corrupt and ridiculous institution. But, I think the notion that you can create a more consistent and less blatantly self-interested version of Christianity is quite clearly not true.

My last serious interaction with a Catholic priest was when at the age of 14 I went into the annual school confessional and told the old guy that I didn't really believe in God anymore. He told me to say three Hail Marys and the act of contrition!

I think Catholicism works because it doesn't try to make sense. It just tries to distract you with nonsense. Thinking and religion don't mix!

 

[teuchter]

On the island of Raasay I've seen the swings and roundabouts in the childrens' playpark chained up and padlocked on a Sunday. I don't know if they still do that. And there are still arguments about whether Sunday sailings to certain islands should be permitted.

there not chained up at all? . theres just a sign saying not to use the park on sundays.

It's possible the thing about chaining the swings up was a figment of my imagination... anyway, I was on Raasay a couple of weeks ago and I can confirm that the sign still exists -

 

[lang rabbie]

Thank you, teuchter, for a remarkable piece of public service posting on a neglected thread which I had sadly almost forgotten.

 

[teuchter]

Pleased to be of service, Sir.

 

[teuchter]

While I was on Raasay... I was wondering how much longer the Wee Frees etc have got to live (the institution, I mean). I can't imagine there are huge numbers of young folk signing up.

 

[lang rabbie]

While I was on Raasay... I was wondering how much longer the Wee Frees etc have got to live (the institution, I mean). I can't imagine there are huge numbers of young folk signing up.

Are there any activities for young people on the Islands not organised by the rival "Wee Free and "Wee Wee Free" congregations?

 

[teuchter]

Yes. They have electricity and everything.

 

[JWH]

Middle East troubles(for 2000 yrs) - religion

I disagree with this. Significant Jewish-Muslim disorder/disagreement in the Middle East only really kicks off in the late 1920s over disputes around the Western Wall and the growing economic power of Zionist immigrants and attempts to build an enclave economy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots

 

[JimW]

I've played cricket on Raasay (don't think it was a Sunday). Our crap scratch team was run by geologists who used to do lots of field trips up in the north west, so they arranged a tour for us one summer where we played on various islands against hastily chucked together local opposition (we still managed to draw the game on Iona ). Any road, we got to stand on the balcony of that big laird's house built with opium money that's now the community/outward bound centre and do a champagne moment thing with tins of beer.

 

[teuchter]

that big laird's house built with opium money that's now the community/outward bound centre

Used to go there as a kid when it was quite a ramshackle outdoors centre. Lots of corridors and stairs - great for running around in.

Sadly half of it burnt down last year, just as they were finishing renovating it - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7836274.stm

At the moment they are building the big new ferry terminal in front of it.

 

[JWH]

Used to go there as a kid when it was quite a ramshackle outdoors centre. Lots of corridors and stairs - great for running around in.

I went there too - hated it. Was the only kid at the time. Rain and wind so strong it bent our little car's door.

 

[danny la rouge]

Hallaig.

 

[1927]

Went to Stornaway for a weekend about ten years ago. The supermarkets were rammed on staurday afternoon witrh people stocking up on booze for sunday.

All the curtains were closed on sunday and it was explained to me that people did that so that no one could see how they were spending their time. The church frowned upon tv watching for instance and some people reported others for breaking the sabbath. Spoke with one guy who ha da business and had to bvankl on the mainland because the local manager refused him an account as he was reported for breaking the sabbath!!

 

[Red Paul]

Times like this I am glad to be a British agnostic.