Col_Buendia
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Just had this from Cardiff People & Planet:
Save Bute Park Demonstration!!!!!!
- Thread starter Udo Erasmus
- Start date
bendeus
Bellend Tagline Generator
waterloowelshy said:
How wonderful, then, that someone with an encyclopedic and up-to-date grasp of 'the facts' (such as your good self) is around to put these disseminators of false and emotive propaganda in their rightful place.
I'm wondering also where you got your information that an expansion of cricketing facilities (a third-class sport in Wales) has the overwhelming public approval that you allude to. I don't know a single fucking person who wants this development, be they Pontcannaites or no.
As far as I can tell, this development will:
Cause car parking to be moved onto field areas - areas currently used for RECREATION - thus turning said areas into a quagmire and unsuitable for any more recreation.
Open up the park road to traffic access where it is currently only open to parks vehicles, bicycles and walkers, thus increasing pollution, risk to park users, and noise as well as changing the entire nature of the park itself.
I have also heard that a high percentage of those signing the petition against the development are NOT from the Pontcanna area, but instead are a representative cross-section of park users from all over the city.
Finally, don't you think that apparently small encroachments on the edge of a protected city green space are just the first step? Give developers an inch and the fuckers will take a mile. It's exactly the same principle as those opposing the Bluestone development at the edge of the Pembrokeshire national park took: if the developers and profiteers win on this one, it's a green light to them to start nipping small chunks of parkland in any given city - to them parkland is anathema because it doesn't turn a profit - until the whole lot is concreted over.
Bottom line is that we are lucky to have such an incredible park in our city, and should do everything in our power to preserve it exactly the way it is for current and future residents of Cardiff to enjoy.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Front page of the Echo today + 2-3 pages of coverage. Also: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/4341036.stm
It seems part of the problem has been caused by the Neo-Liberal Democrat Council's incompetence and right wing agenda in the field of town planning.
Cllr. Rodney Berman's big contribution to the social ecology and cultural life of Cardiff is to have a big building site in the middle of the Hayes where a really imaginative St. David's Centre Mrk. 2 will be built with (how imaginative) lots of Cafes and Restaurants + a John Lewis department store.
Because of this development, the Central Library for a couple of years probably won't even be in the town centre and the Ice rink is being knocked down.
Rather than building the sports village in the Bay which will house the new ice rink first, they have decided to spend one and a half million pounds temporarilly housing the ice rink in Sophia Gardens at the expense of local parkland - such is their incompetence and the Lib. Dems desire to have a public monument (St. David's Centre2) as their legacy built before the electorate kicks their corrupt asses out of offices.
They have made such a hash of the planning that they have managed to upset the cricket club, ice hockey fans, local residents and park-users.
The question is - Do we really need St.David's Centre2, and why the hell is millions of public money being wasted on turning Cardiff into one huge shoping centre?
It seems part of the problem has been caused by the Neo-Liberal Democrat Council's incompetence and right wing agenda in the field of town planning.
Cllr. Rodney Berman's big contribution to the social ecology and cultural life of Cardiff is to have a big building site in the middle of the Hayes where a really imaginative St. David's Centre Mrk. 2 will be built with (how imaginative) lots of Cafes and Restaurants + a John Lewis department store.
Because of this development, the Central Library for a couple of years probably won't even be in the town centre and the Ice rink is being knocked down.
Rather than building the sports village in the Bay which will house the new ice rink first, they have decided to spend one and a half million pounds temporarilly housing the ice rink in Sophia Gardens at the expense of local parkland - such is their incompetence and the Lib. Dems desire to have a public monument (St. David's Centre2) as their legacy built before the electorate kicks their corrupt asses out of offices.
They have made such a hash of the planning that they have managed to upset the cricket club, ice hockey fans, local residents and park-users.
The question is - Do we really need St.David's Centre2, and why the hell is millions of public money being wasted on turning Cardiff into one huge shoping centre?
Col_Buendia
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Udo Erasmus said:
Ta for the link. Hey, anybody'd think you have an axe to grind against the Lib Dems
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
I'm with Udo on this (seriously), St.David's 2 is pointless, that building site is going to ruin Cardiff city centre for the next four years too...and also i agree, kick the Lib Dems out. Who would you elect to run the council instead Udo?
coverage here (only national newspaper to cover the demo) http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/article.php?article_id=7597
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
bendeus said:
Does that mean pruning the trees daily to make sure they are exactly the same lenght and size at the end of everyday?
God that statement is so naive and blinkered its frightening! You can have the best of both worlds - but you just seem content to sit back and let everywhere rot!
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
because of your ever so insightful quote saying that everything should be preserved exactly the way it is for current and future residents of Cardiff to enjoy. If that was the case then there wouldnt be a Cardiff for anyone to enjoy! - as it would never have been built in the first place!
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
For your information i do know from first hand experience of the grassroots support for Welsh Cricket that Glamorgan Cricket Club provide. Given that 99% of the current squad is Wales and have been brought through the various regions within Wales from a young age its pretty bloody obvious that they invest in youth training. But i wouldnt expect somebody as ignorant as you to consider this issue because you are bound to be too busy making placards for your various objections!bendeus said:
I signed an online petition against this development.Had I read this thread first Im not sure I would have. 
I was lead to believe that this development would destroy the park,a park I like to spend time in when I vist Cardiff.Can anyone who actually lives near enough to know answer me this;will this development actually happen on land currently in use as parkland?
I was lead to believe that this development would destroy the park,a park I like to spend time in when I vist Cardiff.Can anyone who actually lives near enough to know answer me this;will this development actually happen on land currently in use as parkland?waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
No! - its within the cricket ground and the adjoining area already used as a car park area.Swan said:I signed an online petition against this development.Had I read this thread first Im not sure I would have.
jannerboyuk
...just kids gone wild.
Hmmm...i'm not too sure who would have told you that the plans would have 'destroyed' considering its size. Perhaps it would be useful to re-post the council planning officers objections:Swan said:I signed an online petition against this development.Had I read this thread first Im not sure I would have.
1. The loss of open space to the north of the Cricket Ground would be detrimental to the character of the Cathedral Road Conservation Area and the Grade II Sophia Gardens Historic Park and the setting of the Pontcanna Fields Grade II* registered Historic Park. This would be contrary to policies 3, 4 and 45 of the City of Cardiff Local Plan, policies 2.53 and 2.54 of the deposit Cardiff Unitary Development Plan (October 2003) and 6.5.15 and 6.5.23 of Planning Policy Wales.
2. The arena building by virtue of its form, scale and massing would be prominent when viewed from the Pontcanna Fields Grade II* registered Historic Park and Grade I registered Bute Historic Park which would adversely affect their setting and character. It would adversely affect the character of the Cathedral Road Conservation Area, and Sophia Gardens Grade II registered Historic Park. This would be contrary to policies 2.53 and 2.54 of the deposit Cardiff Unitary Development Plan (October 2003) and policies 3, 4 and 45 of the Local Plan and government advice contained in paragraph 2.99 and 6.5.15 and 6.5.23 of Planning Policy Wales and paragraphs 4.8, 5.44 and 5.45 of Technical Advice Note 12 : Design.
3. The design of the arena building by reason of the large expanse of monopitch roof, industrial appearance, proposed materials, particularly aluminium roof cladding and large area of concrete steppings behind the western, southern and eastern stands would be inappropriate and out of character with the setting of the Pontcanna Fields Grade II* Historic Park, and the character of the Cathedral Road Conservation Area and Sophia Gardens Grade II Historic Park. This would be contrary to policies 3, 4, 11 and 45 of the Local Plan, and government advice contained in paragraphs 2.99, 6.5.5 and 6.5.23 of Planning Policy Wales and paragraphs 4.8, 5.44 and 5.45 of Technical Advice Note 12: Design.
4. In the absence of an appropriately worded unilateral undertaking to improve footpaths to the site and measures being implemented to mitigate the effects of the loss of on-site car parking and added travel demand resulting from the proposal there would be a detrimental effect on highway safety, contrary to policies 17, 18, 19 and 45 of the City of Cardiff Local Plan, and policy 2.58 of the deposit Cardiff Unitary Development Plan (October 2005) and paragraphs 8.42 and 11.3.2 of Planning Policy Wales.
5. The proposed arena building would be sited on part of the car park required to be provided by condition 4 of planning permission 98/427W and result in a loss of available car park when the ground is used for cricket or any other sport.
6. In the absence of a ground condition survey adjacent to the trees on the northern boundary there is no certainty that the car park could be provided without harming the trees, to the detriment of the Cathedral Road Conservation Area and Historic Parks.
7. Insufficient details of storage and collection of refuse, have been submitted as required by the Council's Supplementary Planning Guidance : Waste Management.
http://www.hititforsix.net/hit46.nsf?Open
http://savebutepark.blogspot.com/
Also according to Cadw a number of 100 old beech tree's are already being killed by carparking (and now have a preservation order on them) and this would only get worse with the now withdrawn plans.
Most of the people who work for CADW in Cardiff live in Pontcanna.
I don't understand how an alteration to the skyscape is suddenly so awful. The Millennium Stadium dominates the view from Bute Park but I don't remember any objections to that.
And whatever they say, the walled-off area adjacent to the cricket ground doesn't encroach on Bute Park whatsoever. There are 3 car parks within 5 minutes walk of the proposed sight, not to mention every car park in the City centre. The paranoid notion that people would have parked their motors on Bute Park is hilarious (it's physically impossible). Also the idea that only Parks vehicles use that road cutting through Bute Park is also utter bollocks. There's a caravan park; special school and stables there - people don't parachute into those places, they drive). And when there are Parks football games on, that road is chokka with vehicles... but strangely enough nobody seems that bothered about it.
Anyway, the NIMBY/tree-hugger/anti-libdem alliance won - it's going to be built somewhere else.
I read in the Echo about some trees being cut down in Grangetown the other day. How come all you nature lovers aren't up in arms about that? Maybe you don't take your dog for a walk there; or maybe it's not on your cycle route; or maybe it's just not in a poncey enough area for you to give a shit.
I don't understand how an alteration to the skyscape is suddenly so awful. The Millennium Stadium dominates the view from Bute Park but I don't remember any objections to that.
And whatever they say, the walled-off area adjacent to the cricket ground doesn't encroach on Bute Park whatsoever. There are 3 car parks within 5 minutes walk of the proposed sight, not to mention every car park in the City centre. The paranoid notion that people would have parked their motors on Bute Park is hilarious (it's physically impossible). Also the idea that only Parks vehicles use that road cutting through Bute Park is also utter bollocks. There's a caravan park; special school and stables there - people don't parachute into those places, they drive). And when there are Parks football games on, that road is chokka with vehicles... but strangely enough nobody seems that bothered about it.
Anyway, the NIMBY/tree-hugger/anti-libdem alliance won - it's going to be built somewhere else.
I read in the Echo about some trees being cut down in Grangetown the other day. How come all you nature lovers aren't up in arms about that? Maybe you don't take your dog for a walk there; or maybe it's not on your cycle route; or maybe it's just not in a poncey enough area for you to give a shit.
waterloowelshy
Well-Known Member
Brockway said:Most of the people who work for CADW in Cardiff live in Pontcanna.
I don't understand how an alteration to the skyscape is suddenly so awful. The Millennium Stadium dominates the view from Bute Park but I don't remember any objections to that.
And whatever they say, the walled-off area adjacent to the cricket ground doesn't encroach on Bute Park whatsoever. There are 3 car parks within 5 minutes walk of the proposed sight, not to mention every car park in the City centre. The paranoid notion that people would have parked their motors on Bute Park is hilarious (it's physically impossible). Also the idea that only Parks vehicles use that road cutting through Bute Park is also utter bollocks. There's a caravan park; special school and stables there - people don't parachute into those places, they drive). And when there are Parks football games on, that road is chokka with vehicles... but strangely enough nobody seems that bothered about it.
Anyway, the NIMBY/tree-hugger/anti-libdem alliance won - it's going to be built somewhere else.
I read in the Echo about some trees being cut down in Grangetown the other day. How come all you nature lovers aren't up in arms about that? Maybe you don't take your dog for a walk there; or maybe it's not on your cycle route; or maybe it's just not in a poncey enough area for you to give a shit.
Its not going to be built elsewhere as yet - what i imagine will happen is that the developers will take on board some of the comments made by the Planning Officers in the reccomendations for refusal that were never used to refuse the scheme as it was withdrawn by the applicant. The developer will prob come back with a more appealing scheme addressing the issues and then either it will be approved by the Council or taken to appeal where it IMHO have a very strong chance of success.
I still think that the development is acceptable in this position and any redesign that will now occur will be much more favourable and like i said before i still think it will, as it should, go ahead.
Brockway said:I read in the Echo about some trees being cut down in Grangetown the other day. How come all you nature lovers aren't up in arms about that? Maybe you don't take your dog for a walk there; or maybe it's not on your cycle route; or maybe it's just not in a poncey enough area for you to give a shit.
Now,now.That's a bit unfair.
I think its terrible what's happening in Grangetown.
If you're so concerned about it , Brockway , why don't you start a campaign to save the trees? I'm sure all here will be right behind you (except waterloowelshy who will be weiding the chainsaw no doubt)
