Save Bute Park Demonstration!!!!!!

[osterberg]

But you are part of the tin foil brigade though arent you! - bloody hell talk about paranoid! The world is out to get you Osterberg!

What's the tin-foil brigade?
You need to calm down mate.And don't get so upset when someone disagrees with you.
I don't understand the 'paranoid' remark either.

 

[Brockway]

Oi Osterberg, did you name yourself after Mr James Osterberg aka Iggy Pop? You can completely redeem yourself by answering yes.

 

[waterloowelshy]

Ooh er! Who rattled your cage?

See you on the demo

There is no need for me to attend the demo - do you really think it achieves anything. Your naevity is heartfelt but to suggest that a bunch of crusties turning up to moan about ruining the park - which the development clearly isnt going to do - will have any impact upon the decision is laughable.

I suppose i am confident enough in the decison makers making the correct decision and approving it that i have better things to do with my time than turn up and listen to the objectors drivel.

 

[osterberg]

Oi Osterberg, did you name yourself after Mr James Osterberg aka Iggy Pop? You can completely redeem yourself by answering yes.

I'm afraid so.
I'm glad somebody's friendly around here

 

[osterberg]

There is no need for me to attend the demo - do you really think it achieves anything. Your naevity is heartfelt but to suggest that a bunch of crusties turning up to moan about ruining the park - which the development clearly isnt going to do - will have any impact upon the decision is laughable.

I suppose i am confident enough in the decison makers making the correct decision and approving it that i have better things to do with my time than turn up and listen to the objectors drivel.

Yes,I was seriously expecting you to turn up

 

[lewislewis]

Plans can change.Wasn't the Millenium Stadium going to be built without knocking down the Empire Pool,Cardiff's only olympic sized swimming pool?
Instead they did knock it down and built a multiplex cinema as if we needed yet another of those.

I use that multiplex cinema quite often, so do alot of young people?

Plus it looks really good next to the stadium.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

There is no need for me to attend the demo - do you really think it achieves anything. Your naevity is heartfelt but to suggest that a bunch of crusties turning up to moan about ruining the park - which the development clearly isnt going to do - will have any impact upon the decision is laughable.

I suppose i am confident enough in the decison makers making the correct decision and approving it that i have better things to do with my time than turn up and listen to the objectors drivel.

First of all I'm a marxist and member of the Socialist Workers Party and Respect (to be a true green you have to be a red!) not an anarchist crusty (though I have nothing against them).

I am also not a resident of Pontcanna, I live in Roath - but as a socialist I take an interest in the preservation and conservation of public park land, which across Britain is being sold off to private firms and increasingly under attack from commercial interests.

And the groups of crusties opposing this development include local councillors and members of the cricket club.

I should note that the campaign has even had mention in the national press (Mail on Sunday)

Finally, you still haven't responded to our objection that the public have been deceived. The Neo-Liberal Democrat Council have pretended that their is a small temporary development happening when it is in fact a larger permanent development occurring - why are they deceiving the public?

 

[waterloowelshy]

First of all I'm a marxist and member of the Socialist Workers Party and Respect (to be a true green you have to be a red!) not an anarchist crusty (though I have nothing against them).

I am also not a resident of Pontcanna, I live in Roath - but as a socialist I take an interest in the preservation and conservation of public park land, which across Britain is being sold off to private firms and increasingly under attack from commercial interests.

And the groups of crusties opposing this development include local councillors and members of the cricket club.

I should note that the campaign has even had mention in the national press (Mail on Sunday)

Finally, you still haven't responded to our objection that the public have been deceived. The Neo-Liberal Democrat Council have pretended that their is a small temporary development happening when it is in fact a larger permanent development occurring - why are they deceiving the public?

After reading your thread i realise that you are the type of person that will be ignored during any objection and you arent worth rising to here.

Mail on Sunday sums it up nicely! - what a quality paper that is!

Nobody has been decieved - the development will not impact upon any part of the established park -its within the cricket ground and the adjoining car park - which is already urbanised in nature - how the fuck can you regard that as park land.

No land is being sold off -its Glamorgan Cricket club land - so take your boring philosophical tirade to a demonstration that fits your moral ideologies and stop wasting everyones time with this one!

 

[osterberg]

I use that multiplex cinema quite often, so do alot of young people?

Plus it looks really good next to the stadium.

Do we need 3 in Cardiff?
What about all the healthy exercise one gets from swimming?

 

[osterberg]

After reading your thread i realise that you are the type of person that will be ignored during any objection and you arent worth rising to here.

Mail on Sunday sums it up nicely! - what a quality paper that is!

Nobody has been decieved - the development will not impact upon any part of the established park -its within the cricket ground and the adjoining car park - which is already urbanised in nature - how the fuck can you regard that as park land.

No land is being sold off -its Glamorgan Cricket club land - so take your boring philosophical tirade to a demonstration that fits your moral ideologies and stop wasting everyones time with this one!

You really don't like people disagreeing with you,don't you?

 

[waterloowelshy]

You really don't like people disagreeing with you,don't you?

Its not the disagreeing i mind - its the illogical argument, lies and pretence that the objections are being made for the greater good.

The simple and plain fact is that the development will not harm the park - or be located within the park! - to have a save the park demo is therefore completely illogical and misrepresentative.

 

[lewislewis]

Do we need 3 in Cardiff?
What about all the healthy exercise one gets from swimming?

I prefer hiking to swimming, I enjoy both man-made and natural scenery.

 

[osterberg]

I prefer hiking to swimming, I enjoy both man-made and natural scenery.

Me too,I like a good walk.Birdwatching and cycling are good too.
A while back Waterloowelshy called me part of the tin-foil brigade and I have no idea what he meant.Did he mean these ?

 

[Col_Buendia]

...I suppose i am confident enough in the decison makers making the correct decision and approving it...

You're not really serious, are you?

I mean, genuinely, there's not really anybody that naive and daft in Cardiff, is there?

 

[Col_Buendia]

...The simple and plain fact is that the development will not harm the park - or be located within the park!...

As you can see this view is significantly different from being on the ground, and begins to make sense of Cadw's objections to the whole scheme where they argue that the GCCC grounds are still very much part of the whole picture of the protected parks.

Source - hititforsix.net

 

[osterberg]

Thank you for the link Col Buenida.
That certainly puts a clearer perspective on things.

One thing I asked earlier was where would the car parking spaces to replace the ones that would be lost come from?That nice,inviting field at the top left of the picture perhaps?

I think those in favour of a project this large are naive if can be done quickly and quietly with little impact with little disruption and kept to a small patch of land.

 

[waterloowelshy]

Thank you for the link Col Buenida.
That certainly puts a clearer perspective on things.

One thing I asked earlier was where would the car parking spaces to replace the ones that would be lost come from?That nice,inviting field at the top left of the picture perhaps?

I think those in favour of a project this large are naive if can be done quickly and quietly with little impact with little disruption and kept to a small patch of land.

The picture emphasises that the development will be within the cricket gound and not the park! - what was that meant to prove.

Have fun at the demo - ill maybe see you in the new stands when they are built!

 

[Udo Erasmus]

To Lewislewis -

It is ironic that we disagree over this development, as your own party Plaid Cymru (Cardiff West branch) has been heavilly involved in this campaign. Indeed it was a Plaid Councillor (who represents the local area) with whom I've worked with in a number of campaigns who e-mailed me about this demonstration and campaign

I bring this to your attention, just to clarify that although I criticise Plaid quite often on these boards, I am quite willing to take part in joint actions with them against the war, racism or destruction of the environment.

On a completely different tack,

There needs to be a serious debate over the "development" and corporate take-over that has been taking place across Cardiff in recent years. From the outrageous destruction of Butetown (once one of the most vibrant areas of Cardiff now dead and souless) to make way for the bay-development that doesn't even engage with local communities, through to Russell Good-pay's collosal waste of cash and the current St.David's/Hayes developments.

The St. David's Centre/Hayes development much hyped by Neo-Liberal Democrat Council leader, Cllr. Rodney Berman consists of building lots of trendy Restaurants and cafes + the "first John Lewis department store in Cardiff".

Other than raking in lots of money for a few, will these monstrosities seriously make Cardiff a more interesting, vibrant and happening city?

 

[RubberBuccaneer]

On a completely different tack,

There needs to be a serious debate over the "development" and corporate take-over that has been taking place across Cardiff in recent years. From the outrageous destruction of Butetown (once one of the most vibrant areas of Cardiff now dead and souless) to make way for the bay-development that doesn't even engage with local communities, through to Russell Good-pay's collosal waste of cash and the current St.David's/Hayes developments.

The St. David's Centre/Hayes development much hyped by Neo-Liberal Democrat Council leader, Cllr. Rodney Berman consists of building lots of trendy Restaurants and cafes + the "first John Lewis department store in Cardiff".

Other than raking in lots of money for a few, will these monstrosities seriously make Cardiff a more interesting, vibrant and happening city?

NO!
save the Vulcan and the Hayes, and keep independent shops rates down.
Spillers next?

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Why do we need more Cafe's on the Hayes, when we have the Hayes Tea Island?

(Just out of interest, I think it is to do with the developments that MVC recordshop has recently shut down, but not definite)

 

[Col_Buendia]

The picture emphasises that the development will be within the cricket gound and not the park! - what was that meant to prove.

Have fun at the demo - ill maybe see you in the new stands when they are built!

Congrats, Waterloo, you completely failed to (1) read the text in the quotation from the website from which the piccy was lifted, or (2) engage with what it said. I think that about sums up your level of engagement with the people who have bothered to answer your ill-humoured rantings on this thread. Your comedy jibes about crusties and ad hominem attacks on other posters do a great discredit to the argument that there ought to be decent sports facilities in Cardiff. And you still haven't answered my first question: are you really stupid enough to write something like this in all seriousness?

I suppose i am confident enough in the decison makers making the correct decision and approving it...

 

[lewislewis]

To Lewislewis -

It is ironic that we disagree over this development, as your own party Plaid Cymru (Cardiff West branch) has been heavilly involved in this campaign. Indeed it was a Plaid Councillor (who represents the local area) with whom I've worked with in a number of campaigns who e-mailed me about this demonstration and campaign

I bring this to your attention, just to clarify that although I criticise Plaid quite often on these boards, I am quite willing to take part in joint actions with them against the war, racism or destruction of the environment.

Good stuff Udo.

My point was simply that i can't get worked up over it as i'm not from there, and without wishing to be heartless don't care about the development/campaign. Like i said, the final decision should be based on the opinion of local residents (but i'm not going to lose any sleep over it).

 

[Brockway]

"One thing I asked earlier was where would the car parking spaces to replace the ones that would be lost come from?"


There's a car park opposite the Sports Centre and another one on the site of the old Sophia Gardens venue (where the roof caved in before a Motorhead gig!). Plenty of car parking space then, and both within one minute's walk of the proposed venue. And if those are full... people can park in Pontcanna.

That aerial shot doesn't show the great big wall that separates the cricket ground from Bute Park. It's about 12 foot tall!

I'm up for any kind of naughtiness to save the Vulcan. After all it's part of our literary heritage: John Williams

 

[Brockway]

...or even: John Williams

 

[waterloowelshy]

To Lewislewis -

It is ironic that we disagree over this development, as your own party Plaid Cymru (Cardiff West branch) has been heavilly involved in this campaign. Indeed it was a Plaid Councillor (who represents the local area) with whom I've worked with in a number of campaigns who e-mailed me about this demonstration and campaign

I bring this to your attention, just to clarify that although I criticise Plaid quite often on these boards, I am quite willing to take part in joint actions with them against the war, racism or destruction of the environment.

On a completely different tack,

There needs to be a serious debate over the "development" and corporate take-over that has been taking place across Cardiff in recent years. From the outrageous destruction of Butetown (once one of the most vibrant areas of Cardiff now dead and souless) to make way for the bay-development that doesn't even engage with local communities, through to Russell Good-pay's collosal waste of cash and the current St.David's/Hayes developments.

The St. David's Centre/Hayes development much hyped by Neo-Liberal Democrat Council leader, Cllr. Rodney Berman consists of building lots of trendy Restaurants and cafes + the "first John Lewis department store in Cardiff".

Other than raking in lots of money for a few, will these monstrosities seriously make Cardiff a more interesting, vibrant and happening city?

Ultiamtely the public gets what the public wants - we may not all be in agreement with those things but the bottom line they make money and land costs money! - if people didnt use them and they didnt make money they wouldnt be built - so surely you have to accept that the common concesus amongst people is that they are wanted or needed. its just simple economics.

 

[waterloowelshy]

Congrats, Waterloo, you completely failed to (1) read the text in the quotation from the website from which the piccy was lifted, or (2) engage with what it said. I think that about sums up your level of engagement with the people who have bothered to answer your ill-humoured rantings on this thread. Your comedy jibes about crusties and ad hominem attacks on other posters do a great discredit to the argument that there ought to be decent sports facilities in Cardiff. And you still haven't answered my first question: are you really stupid enough to write something like this in all seriousness?

yes i stand by that comment - i am convinced that the application will be approved as it meets all the planning requirements and if refused at the local level by the Council due to objections making it a political decision then i am certain that common sense will prevail and it will be approved by the Planning Inspectorate should it go to appela and the application be decided without any political slant by an independant person.

Ultimately the application fits with planning policy and no amount of moaning / distorting the truth can alter that.

 

[Col_Buendia]

Ultiamtely the public gets what the public wants - we may not all be in agreement with those things but the bottom line they make money and land costs money! - if people didnt use them and they didnt make money they wouldnt be built - so surely you have to accept that the common concesus amongst people is that they are wanted or needed. its just simple economics.

This is so much (badly spelt) crap that it is scarcely worth bothering with I'm not sure this isn't just a good wind-up.... you don't really believe this, do you? I mean, WTF are you rabbitting on about you lunatic? "The public gets what the public wants... we may not agree...it is economics" Holy cock-sucking christ, what is it to be? Grammar, sense and a coherent argument or dribbling drivel, WLW? Do those who do not agree become, mysteriously, disqualified from being part of your homogeneous "public". If you disagree you don't count? What sort of decision-making process is this then?

Earlier it was this -

I suppose i am confident enough in the decison makers making the correct decision and approving it...

and now it is the public who get what they want. Do you want to bother trying to clarify your confused and muddled spoutings, WLW, or do you want to leave the thread to people who can marshall adequate spelling and cogent sentences?

 

[waterloowelshy]

This is so much (badly spelt) crap that it is scarcely worth bothering with I'm not sure this isn't just a good wind-up.... you don't really believe this, do you? I mean, WTF are you rabbitting on about you lunatic? "The public gets what the public wants... we may not agree...it is economics" Holy cock-sucking christ, what is it to be? Grammar, sense and a coherent argument or dribbling drivel, WLW? Do those who do not agree become, mysteriously, disqualified from being part of your homogeneous "public". If you disagree you don't count? What sort of decision-making process is this then?

Earlier it was this -and now it is the public who get what they want. Do you want to bother trying to clarify your confused and muddled spoutings, WLW, or do you want to leave the thread to people who can marshall adequate spelling and cogent sentences?

forget the spelling i a have more pressing things to do than check my spelling before i submit - what are you marking me now?

we live in a democracy dick wad - hence things get built that will make money and appease the majority of people. I dont contend to always be part of the main stream - but hey its tough shit! What do you want you own private park built for you?

Sure you can disagree but you have to accept the stronger argument - quite frankly i cant be bothered wastimg my time arguing with you either - especially as the decision in my mind will be a foregone conclusion.

In essence there is no point continuing to argue here - i am content to sit back and wait until the decision is made.

Fortunately there are probably more sane and rational people than the minority that oppose anything being developed - hence the public get what the public want and you'll be left to move on to your next fruitless objection. I would sympathise if i felt the park were to be adversely affected i really would - but the bottom line is that there is no logical reason why the cricket club cannot be increased in size to the benefit of Cardiff and Wales as a whole whilst maintaining one of the best urban parks around!

 

[Col_Buendia]

<snip>...quite frankly i cant be bothered wastimg my time arguing with you either - especially as the decision in my mind will be a foregone conclusion.

Nuff said then, walter

<log out button is over there =============>
close the door on your way out, there's a good chap>

 

[waterloowelshy]

Nuff said then, walter

<log out button is over there =============>
close the door on your way out, there's a good chap>

lets just hope the thread is around when the app is approved or successfully appealed.

So far you have failed to present any justification as to why it should be refused. Your argument suggests - indeed the title of this thread (Save Bute Park) - that the park will be ruined if this goes ahead. This is clearly not true at all.

What you doing next week? - organising a bunch of kids to stand around a proposed telecoms mast with placards?

The title of this thread, and the argument against the development, is based on emotive propoganda that just discards the facts.

Close the door - dont make me laugh - if you had your way there would probably be no doors to close cos you wouldnt have let anyone build them!