Save Alfie madness

[cupid_stunt]

Alfie Evans granted Italian citizenship

 

[alan_]

first they came for the little babies in a coma (but they said nothing because they were in a coma and I said nowt cos the doctors said)

 

[editor]

Yes it does. The utter fucking silence of 'progressive's like you on the removal of those with LD/MH from society (or indeed, from life) is background to this. And that cause is able to be exploited to the max by cunts like Alex Jones, because 'progressives' couldn't give a shit.

Maybe if lefties actually gave a shit about parents such as the Evan's, it wouldn't be so easy for Alex Jones et all to exploit their suffering

I just provide a free, popular forum where you can talk about - and publicise - issues that are important to you, but unless I personally get involved with every issue that ticks your boxes, I'm to blame for Alex Jones?

Jesus wept.

 

[emanymton]

The kid's apparently brain dead, he's not suffering anything.

That's what I thought but assumed I had misunderstood or the matter was up for debate. I really can't think of any other reason no to let the parents take him to italy if they want.

 

[Shechemite]

I just provide a free, popular forum where you can talk about - and publicise - issues that are important to you, but unless I personally get involved with every issue that ticks your boxes, I'm to blame for Alex Jones?

Jesus wept.

And that's exactly what I just said, of course.

 

[andysays]

Yes it does. The utter fucking silence of 'progressive's like you on the removal of those with LD/MH from society (or indeed, from life) is background to this. And that cause is able to be exploited to the max by cunts like Alex Jones, because 'progressives' couldn't give a shit.

Maybe if lefties actually gave a shit about parents such as the Evan's, it wouldn't be so easy for Alex Jones et all to exploit their suffering

I realise this is a subject with personal resonance for you, but I'm not sure attacking anyone here over it is helpful or appropriate.

What do you think "progressives" or whoever should be doing about this case which might demonstrate their "giving a shit" and prevent Alex Jones et al from exploiting the suffering of the Evans parents and others like them?

 

[cupid_stunt]

experts pah
We were euthanizing down syndrome children one or two generations ago and that was expert opinion
how about this near miss
'Miracle' Baby Wakes From Coma As Doctors Prepare To Turn Off Life Support
Why not let the kid go somewhere else?

In that case the first court ruled that baby should be given another 2 months.

In this case it's been ongoing for over a year now - "before today's ECHR ruling, Alfie's parents had already lost a first round of cases in the High Court, Court of Appeal and European Court of Human Rights, as well as two cases at the Supreme Court."

They are VERY different situations.

There's no hope of recovery, the transfer to the hospital in Rome, which has connections with the Vatican, would only result in his palliative care continuing.

 

[editor]

And that's exactly what I just said, of course.

You attacked me because I'm apparently some sort of figurehead for what you define as "progressives" and "lefties."

Which is, of course, utter bollocks. I don't represent anyone else but myself and I'm just expressing my own personal opinion on this sad matter. Why are you trying to make this personal? What do you hope to gain by that course of action?

 

[alan_]

I just provide a free, popular forum where you can talk about - and publicise - issues that are important to you, but unless I personally get involved with every issue that ticks your boxes, I'm to blame for Alex Jones?

Jesus wept.

I am very grateful for a space and discussion forum to come share and vent on

 

[Shechemite]

I realise this is a subject with personal resonance for you, but I'm not sure attacking anyone here over it is helpful or appropriate.

What do you think "progressives" or whoever should be doing about this case which might demonstrate their "giving a shit" and prevent Alex Jones et al from exploiting the suffering of the Evans parents and others like them?

The comment wasn't an attack on Ed (I thought my post was clear on that), but on the leftie politics, which sneers at certain unfashionable groups (for their struggles, and their desperate attempts to make sense of, and liberate themselves from, such struggles); and then can't understand why scum like Scientology/Conspiraloons have such influence on those groups.

 

[editor]

Good grief

 

[killer b]

There's no hope of recovery, the transfer to the hospital in Rome, which has connections with the Vatican, would only result in his palliative care continuing.

what bad things will happen if he is transfered to rome and has his palliative care prolonged in a hospital with connections to the vatican?

 

[editor]

The comment wasn't an attack on Ed (I thought my post was clear on that), but on the leftie politics, which sneers at certain unfashionable groups (for their struggles, and their desperate attempts to make sense of, and liberate themselves from, such struggles); and then can't understand why scum like Scientology/Conspiraloons have such influence on those groups.

Why do you think I represent 'leftie' politics? Why even include me in your post?

And as for attacking the likes of Scientology and Alex Jones, I think I've certainly played a bigger part than some, and this board has had some influence in dismantling and ridiculing some of the bonkers theories emanating from conspiracy nuts.

 

[Shechemite]

Why do you think I represent 'leftie' politics? Why even include me in your post?

And as for attacking the likes of Scientology and Alex Jones, I think I've certainly played a bigger part than some and this board has had some influence in dismantling and ridiculing some of the bonkers theories emanating from conspiracy nuts.

Ok, I think the board is fucking great, and I respect all the work you do (which I understand you do for free). My post wasn't meant as an attack on your character, or the boards. Ok?

I was responding to your glib post that the killing of kids with LD 'has nothing to do with this'. Can we focus on the social/poilital context of families like those of the Evans', rather than what might have been a poorly worded post of mine earlier on?

(and yes, the boards have been a very valuable resource wrt understanding/dealing with conspiraloons. Keep up the good work)

 

[comrade spurski]

The parents are fucking idiots, sorry.

The parents are failing to cope with one of the most difficult things any human can face. Not only do they do they face the death of their son, they also face having to agree to his life support being turned off.

It has been nearly 24 years since I had to make a similar decision about my new born son and I still feel guilty and some days hate myself...and I knew at the time it was right and still do.

A bit of empathy would not go amiss imo

 

[1927]

Meanwhile somewhere today a child who could have been saved will die, cos the NHS is spunking money on keeping alive a baby that is already brain dead!

 

[editor]

I was responding to your glib post that the killing of kids with LD 'has nothing to do with this'. Can we focus on the social/poilital context of families like those of the Evans', rather than what might have been a poorly worded post of mine earlier on?

No, I was directly comparing the two specific medical cases.

 

[killer b]

Meanwhile somewhere today a child who could have been saved will die, cos the NHS is spunking money on keeping alive a baby that is already brain dead!

Is that how NHS funding works?

 

[Shechemite]

Meanwhile somewhere today a child who could have been saved will die, cos the NHS is spunking money on keeping alive a baby that is already brain dead!

So not because the NHS is massively under-fucking-funded?

 

[souljacker]

Meanwhile somewhere today a child who could have been saved will die, cos the NHS is spunking money on keeping alive a baby that is already brain dead!

I doubt it.

 

[Shechemite]

Meanwhile somewhere today a child who could have been saved will die, cos the NHS is spunking money on keeping alive a baby that is already brain dead!

Well, at least we're kicking out all them health-tourists. God bless britain eh 1927

 

[mauvais]

what bad things will happen if he is transfered to rome and has his palliative care prolonged in a hospital with connections to the vatican?

Potentially sets a dangerous precedent whereby anyone can transfer a patient out as soon as they're unhappy with a decision? Thus the principle of duty of care based expert decision making is compromised by carers' nuclear option of 'I'm going elsewhere'.

 

[Looby]

I think you probably need to be brain-alive to feel anything at all. I can't say I understand the science though, maybe he's actually suffering in there - it doesn't sound like it though.

TBH I don't have very strong feelings on this, other than a vague uneasiness about the whole thing. Just feels like The wrong kind of people doing the wrong protest.

I’m sure I read a while back that the medical team couldn’t be sure he wasn’t feeling pain but I can’t remember where.

Sorry for the screen shot but I’m on my phone.

From here- Desperate parents of gravely ill toddler sneaked doctor in hospital to save son

 

[editor]

I doubt it.

The real blame for that is the cunting fucking Tory scumbags and the Blairite shitbags who have handed over chunks of the precious NHS to profiteering filth.

 

[redsquirrel]

what bad things will happen if he is transfered to rome and has his palliative care prolonged in a hospital with connections to the vatican?

This is the most detailed description that I've managed to come across.

Mr Justice Hayden said the details of provisions for the final stage of Alfie Evans’s life could not be made public.
.....
The judge said details of that plan could not be revealed because Alfie was entitled to privacy at the end of his life.

No mention of pain or suffering.

I agree with you that there's definitely an element of the parents being the wrong sort of people.

 

[killer b]

Potentially sets a dangerous precedent whereby anyone can transfer a patient out as soon as they're unhappy with a decision?

Is this not already the case? Once my child is in the care of the NHS I can't choose to take him somewhere else if I disagree with their care or diagnoses?

 

[redsquirrel]

Meanwhile somewhere today a child who could have been saved will die, cos the NHS is spunking money on keeping alive a baby that is already brain dead!

Christ, this thread's really brought out some wankers. Mind you, you were in favour of NHS cutbacks anyway aren't you.

 

[alan_]

Meanwhile somewhere today a child who could have been saved will die, cos the NHS is spunking money on keeping alive a baby that is already brain dead!

And paying a paper chaser administrator 250,000 pounds a year (whilst incidentally they may be suspended, sick gardening leave whatever) these are the cunts that drain the system not the sick

 

[TruXta]

Potentially sets a dangerous precedent whereby anyone can transfer a patient out as soon as they're unhappy with a decision? Thus the principle of duty of care based expert decision making is compromised by carers' nuclear option of 'I'm going elsewhere'.

Barring certain legal provisions, anyone deemed to have capacity can do whatever they want with regards to care.

 

[mauvais]

Is this not already the case? Once my child is in the care of the NHS I can't choose to take him somewhere else if I disagree with their care or diagnoses?

Not necessarily, no. Lots of cases about this in recent years. I don't have anything beyond layman's info though.

Here's an example you may recall: Ashya King cleared of cancer three years after his parents abducted him from hospital for treatment abroad