Saudis to buy Eurofighter

[foggypane]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/saudi/story/0,11599,1579156,00.html


Any thoughts on why their buddies the Americans aren't clinching a deal with the latest US silver - plated rocket ships?

 

[Bigdavalad]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/saudi/story/0,11599,1579156,00.html


Any thoughts on why their buddies the Americans aren't clinching a deal with the latest US silver - plated rocket ships?

Because they're too expensive and the US are unlikely to give the Saudis full access to the computer software coding etc, so the Saudis will be reliant on the US for upgrades etc.

 

[TAE]

WTF is the UK doing selling those kinds of arms to that kind of a government?!


EDIT:
September 27, 2005 ??

I hadn't heard about this.

Anyways, looks like its a done deal:
http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/men/business/s/192/192541_saudi_fighter_deal_safeguards_jobs.html
http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2005/12/22/afx2410424.html
http://www.flightinternational.com/...abia+commits+to+Eurofighter+Typhoon+deal.html

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Guardian seemed to think they were going to throw in a couple of dissidents to sweeten the deal.

 

[Random]

IIRC the eurofighter isn't much cop, except against soviet era planes. Who in that region uses Migs? Iran?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

The Saudis are pretty useless, so whoever they're fighting they'd lose even if the opposition was using Sopwith Camels.

I think these are just prestige toys.

 

[Bigdavalad]

IIRC the eurofighter isn't much cop, except against soviet era planes. Who in that region uses Migs? Iran?

They're better than pretty much anything else in the sky, probably on the F-22 Raptor superior to it and a couple of others in a similar class.

The Eurofighter was designed in the Cold War era (politics making the project take 20 years to complete), but it is still a very good aircraft and light years beyond the Tornado F3s that the RAF are pootling round in now.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

The Saudis are pretty useless, so whoever they're fighting they'd lose even if the opposition was using Sopwith Camels.

I think these are just prestige toys.

I think you are wrong...

the saudis have one of the most advance technologically armies in the ME if not the most advanced army in the ME, sure they don't tend to look after their equipement but they don't have to they just buy more...

I'd be very worried if saudi ever decided to use it's us trained army and airforce...

<bw the raf are flying around in gr4's as the f3's had a bit of a wing spar problem... which made the wings fall off ... had problems in iraq ... are crap generally... the f3 was the fighter varient the gr (ground reconisance) was the bomber version, .. most f3's have been refited and do fly but the ones mainly used are the jaguar as our main fighter ... and is a vastly superiour plane dispite being older...>

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

They're better than pretty much anything else in the sky, probably on the F-22 Raptor superior to it and a couple of others in a similar class.

The Eurofighter was designed in the Cold War era (politics making the project take 20 years to complete), but it is still a very good aircraft and light years beyond the Tornado F3s that the RAF are pootling round in now.

yeah they are better but they do tend to have a problem getting into the sky and off the production line as of yet ...

I'd imagine this is a way of offsetting some of the sprialling costs of this white elephant ...

 

[TAE]

IIRC the eurofighter isn't much cop

The only negative thing I'd heard was the front 'canards ' obscuring the pilot's view, although I've since read that this is not an issue.

 

[Bigdavalad]

yeah they are better but they do tend to have a problem getting into the sky and off the production line as of yet ...

I'd imagine this is a way of offsetting some of the sprialling costs of this white elephant ...

The first UK squadrons have them now. Like I said - politics delayed them.

Wouldn't surprise me if this was something to do with cost cutting though.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

The first UK squadrons have them now. Like I said - politics delayed them.

Wouldn't surprise me if this was something to do with cost cutting though.

i thought they were only in shakedown at the moment ...

 

[Bigdavalad]

<bw the raf are flying around in gr4's as the f3's had a bit of a wing spar problem... which made the wings fall off ... had problems in iraq ... are crap generally... the f3 was the fighter varient the gr (ground reconisance) was the bomber version, .. most f3's have been refited and do fly but the ones mainly used are the jaguar as our main fighter ... and is a vastly superiour plane dispite being older...>

Jaguar is a ground attack aircraft, not a fighter. They're being taken out of service very soon to save Fat Gordon some money. Good aircraft, but sadly out of date now.

Tornado F3 was designed to counter long range Soviet bombers, so they're no good for dog fighting. They're not that bad, but again outdated.

Tornado GR.4 is a completely different aircraft and is still a very effective ground attack aircraft, although it does have a quite a short range.

I've not heard of any wing problems with Tornado, but since most of the airframes are getting on for 30 years old it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Bigdavalad]

i thought they were only in shakedown at the moment ...

The Operational Conversion Units are up and running, so the first Operational squadrons should be running soon.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

f3 have always had a wing spar problem, hence the high maintainence and the keeping of the jag...

 

[Khardran]

I think the main reason it is/was something of a white elephant is nothing to do with it's actual capabilities but more to do with the fact it was designed for an air superiority role. With the decline of the Soviet Union as a threat our ability to justify maintaining large squadrons of single role aircraft is questionable. Especially when you take into account the large number of jobs being shed from the RAF and the services as a whole.

As was mentioned above its continued existence is more down to politics than military expediency. But, hey at least we've offset some of the cost by flogging it to the Saudis.

I'd be interested to know if any serious work has been put into giving it a meaningful ground attack capability?

 

[foggypane]

I'd be interested to know if any serious work has been put into giving it a meaningful ground attack capability?

... I thought the whole point of air superiority was to allow the ground attack a/c free rein. I'd assume the eurofighter can carry the full range of NATO stores, which would include air defence suppressin (electronic and physical), so yes, it would be a ground attack plane too.

Nice for the civilians in Iran in a year or two to know they are being wrongly - but accurately - targetted by the very latest and most impressive of Western technology. As their children die in their arms, no doubt they will feel a twinge of pride. Not like those Iraqi scum, fried by mere Tornado and F15s...

 

[Bigdavalad]

f3 have always had a wing spar problem, hence the high maintainence and the keeping of the jag...

They're different kinds of planes though mate - F3 is a fighter, Jaguar is a strike aircraft.

 

[Bigdavalad]

I'd be interested to know if any serious work has been put into giving it a meaningful ground attack capability?

Yes - it can carry the full range of NATO stores currently in use, including Brimstone and Storm Shadow.

 

[Bigdavalad]

Nice for the civilians in Iran in a year or two to know they are being wrongly - but accurately - targetted by the very latest and most impressive of Western technology. As their children die in their arms, no doubt they will feel a twinge of pride. Not like those Iraqi scum, fried by mere Tornado and F15s...

I seriously doubt that even Bush would be stupid enough to attack Iran, that would make Iraq look like a TA exercise.

 

[foggypane]

I seriously doubt that even Bush would be stupid enough to attack Iran, that would make Iraq look like a TA exercise.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

I reckon it's worth a fiver.

 

[dylanredefined]

I seriously doubt that even Bush would be stupid enough to attack Iran, that would make Iraq look like a TA exercise.

What a bunch of undertrained under equipped muppets blundering around trying to make a over ambitious unrealistic plan work wherever do you get your ideas ?

Eurofighter works though politics has made it late and exspensive .The saudis
may still buy f22 probably the only people who can afford them .Buy some euro fighters just to upset washington enough to decide selling them f22 is a good idea. worked with f15 . As muslims arent supposed to kill other muslims (yeah right) who do they need to defend them selves against ? But keeps jobs in uk so its all good .

 

[october_lost]

This deal is giving jobs to people in Preston via BAE. The Lancashire Evening Post had it as their cover story, but there wasnt one hint of criticism of the fact that the Saudi regime is one of the most vile dictatorships in the world and is a leading supporter of state sponsored terrorism

So much for local jounralism....

 

[Bigdavalad]

One good point made on an other forum -

When Germany wanted to cut their orders of Typhoon, we kicked up a stink and wouldn't let them, leading them to sell some of their orders on to Austria and try to sell more to Greece.

Since the last defence white paper, we haven't wanted as many Typhoons as we ordered, because Fat Gordon wanted us to save money, but we couldn't cut orders after having such a go at Germany, so...

Not like TCB and his lying mates to spin a story this close to Christmas, is it?

 

[rennie]

The Saudis are pretty useless, so whoever they're fighting they'd lose even if the opposition was using Sopwith Camels.

I think these are just prestige toys.

i agree.

 

[G. Fieendish]

One reason that Saudi Arabia's buying Typhoon might be due to Isreali pressure on the U.S to suppy the Saudis with "Downgraded" model aircraft, & as a result the Saudis are now getting fed up with this....
An example of this would be the case of the F-15 Strike Eagle, the Saudi version (F15-S) did not get the conformal fuel tanks/bomb racks (FAST Packs) that the Isreali models (F15-I) carry, or the capacity for in-flight refueling, due to Israeli pressure on the U.S Government....

 

[mauvais]

Nothing really surprising; the Saudis have been buying our planes for years - there always Tornados at Warton being updated in the MLU program. Don't agree with the regime at all but they're hardly using the actual planes to oppress people.

 

[october_lost]

Nothing really surprising; the Saudis have been buying our planes for years - there always Tornados at Warton being updated in the MLU program. Don't agree with the regime at all but they're hardly using the actual planes to oppress people.

So its okay for mad islamic regimes to waste civilian money on military expenditure?

 

[Bigdavalad]

So its okay for mad islamic regimes to waste civilian money on military expenditure?

If they want to, it's their country, their budget, their oil money.

 

[TAE]

Not quite.

As it is not a democratic country, the royal family are not spending "their money" on behalf of the people, but rather they are spending "their population's money" on behalf of themselves.