Saudi-owned oil tanker hijacked in Indian Ocean
- Thread starter david dissadent
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Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
The Royal Navy and several others are already patrolling. However, it's a vast sea area so it's no wonder that pirates slip through the net. That's always been the case and still is.
What is interesting about this is the recent upsurge in piracy. Two ships have been taken this week. C4 news was linking it to the increasing lawlessness in Somalia, which is probably true but explains nothing about who is behind it.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
The BBC had a commentator who pointed out that this year (IIRC) they have recieved $100 million in ransoms - "Hardly likely to cause them to stop" he said, and its likely loads of people are looking at the boats going past their deprived bit of the world and thinking similar thoughts.
As for this outbreak, the solutions will probably have to be the same ones they always are - convoys of merchantmen (which they used to be able to enforce via ship insurance), and attacks on the pirates themselves. Independent patrolling by warships rarely worked in the days when they could shoot first and ask questions later, and is even less likely to work now.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Off the shelf warships aren't the answer, helicopters based off things like HMS Ocean are. All our destroyers, frigates and so on are purpose specific, those that can do the task cost a fortune for the effect they provide.
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
The War Nerd works his own unique brand of magic on the latest twist in the Somali piracy saga:
http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-update-yo-ho-ho-and-a-tanker-of-crude/#more-1875
http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-update-yo-ho-ho-and-a-tanker-of-crude/#more-1875
A few helicopters with radar and a couple of miniguns or air-to-surface missiles ought to fix them.
No-one would even know, because the pirates would just be dead.
Can't the oil companies do this themselves, even? I mean, for 100s of millions of dollars worth of oil and the ship and its crew, a few mercenaries with guns ought to be pretty cheap at the price.....
Giles..
No-one would even know, because the pirates would just be dead.
Can't the oil companies do this themselves, even? I mean, for 100s of millions of dollars worth of oil and the ship and its crew, a few mercenaries with guns ought to be pretty cheap at the price.....
Giles..
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Lest we forget
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer#Britons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateer#Britons
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
Aye, 'cause the US marines really kicked the arses of the pirate's land based cousins in Mog in '93, right?
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
Couldn't give two shits to be honest, let alone go out of my way to remember it!
Arming merchant ships didn't work well in the past. Judging from the comments of a container ship captain, who had himself been the victim of an attack, on C4 news last night, seafarers don't think it's a viable solution now either. After all, modern merchant ships carry small crews and they're not soldiers. The pirates would probably still win in an armed encounter, just with more bloodshed. Having RPGs and so on flying around on an oil tanker probably isn't the most sensible of ideas either, unless you like big explosions and oil slicks.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Of course you couldn't...but this is exactly how the British Empire came into being.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
Well last time I checked there were no plans to re-establish the British Empire, unless you know summat I don't, of course!
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
Because nothing bad could happen when you fire a missile at several hundred thousand gallons of oil.
Well, if you read about that incident, the US soldiers went right into the middle of Mogadishu to attempt to arrest this warlord Aideed (sp?) and under-estimated what would happen.
The international force led by the US were trying to be nice (i.e. they did not start out on a war footing) and still managed to inflict hundreds of casualties on their enemy for the loss of eighteen of their own.
If the forces of the developed world carried out air attacks as retribution for pirate raids against the warlord and pirate controlled ports, my guess is that we could easily deter them. Or just kill loads of em. Probably for no loss on our side either. What are they going to do against an air strike?
Not very nice, but then again, these aren't very nice people.
Giles..
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
So your gran gets blown up by an airstrike because she lives in the same town as a pirate. Do you think:
A) Oh well, best make sure all my relatives don't live near pirates or suspected pirates.
B) The people who droped the bombs murdered my gran.
Airstrikes FTW!111 is a very simplistic solution and one that will almost certainly lead to more problems down the line, even ignoring the inevitable death toll of innocents.
A) Oh well, best make sure all my relatives don't live near pirates or suspected pirates.
B) The people who droped the bombs murdered my gran.
Airstrikes FTW!111 is a very simplistic solution and one that will almost certainly lead to more problems down the line, even ignoring the inevitable death toll of innocents.
Don't be an idiot Giles.
It's inhumane, immoral and unworkable and even to suggest it makes you look like some slack-jawed US hawk.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
How bout setting the nuclear subs on them? That way we can get em in their boats!
Spion
I hear ya
Neither are you, it seems
When dealing with opponents who obey no rules, why feel the need to play by rules that your opponents laugh at?
These people respect power and force. It's not nice, but that is how it is.
The more hesitant and defenceless the rest of the world appear over this, the further they will push it.
Let them know that they are messing with an opponent isn't going to stop, and I think that they will get the message.
Giles..
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
Yeah because the crew of the ships and the innocents civilians in the area deserve nothing.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
The answer to all this has already been explained in Call of Duty 4:
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I never said or even suggested that there were plans.
In terms of pure income generation, this is the sort of thing that a country - with no functioning state apparatuses - might resort to. That said, there may even be warlords - all of whom are vying for control of the country - pulling the strings. The ransoms are almost always paid.
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
Insurance companies pretty much universally declared the Gulf of Aden a war-zone the other day, triggering a huge rise in insurance premiums. One Norwegian shipping company has been diverting their freighters at a cost of $30k per day which gives you an idea of what the premiums must be like now. Saying that this could increase the cost of things globally is not too far fetched IMO.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
Ah right, sorry for the confusionI never said or even suggested that there were plans.
In terms of pure income generation, this is the sort of thing that a country - with no functioning state apparatuses - might resort to. That said, there may even be warlords - all of whom are vying for control of the country - pulling the strings. The ransoms are almost always paid.
So what you're actually saying is that Somalia plans to establish a global empire?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Eh? Where did I suggest that? Cute extrapolation.
Here's a pirate who did rather well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Morris_(merchant)
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Even if you were firing at one of the pirate skiffs, you're not going to get a missile "lock" except possibly by radar, and then you're trying to hit a target that'll be moving (even on a "calm" sea) in three dimensions.
At the price of your average guided missile, it wouldn't even be economic to try to blow the pirates out of the water.
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