Saudi Arabia allows women to travel independently

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by Don Troooomp, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Mrs Miggins

    Mrs Miggins There's been a slight cheese accident

    :hmm:

    Aren't all "royals" basically pretend given the whole shebang is made up nonsense?
    Always makes me laugh...the special hat and special chair business.
     
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  2. ElizabethofYork

    ElizabethofYork Witchsmeller Pursuivant

    I don't think Don Troooomp voiced any disrespect for the women who are forced to wear black blankets; rather he saved his distain for the regime that forces them to wear them.
     
    Don Troooomp likes this.
  3. tim

    tim Well-Known Member


    Why call it a blanket?

    It's insulting in the way that Johnson's letterbox comment was. It's clearly not a term women who choose to wear abayas or similar items of clothing would use. I have female Muslim colleagues and students who wear fashionable contemporary Islamic clothes . I would, rightly, be disciplined if I made such disparaging comments about their attire.

    What virtue do you see in being so rude about what other people choose to wear?
     
    muscovyduck likes this.
  4. ElizabethofYork

    ElizabethofYork Witchsmeller Pursuivant

    Women in Saudi Arabia don't have any choice about their attire. Do you think they all enjoy wearing black, long, all-enveloping robes in 40 degree heat? I'm not disparaging the women, I'm disparaging the fucking disgusting society that forces such garments on people.
     
    UnderAnOpenSky likes this.
  5. tim

    tim Well-Known Member

    Let's go back a little. Don Troooomp said patronisingly


    Which led to my comment.

    My focus was on his general comments on the choices some Muslim women make about clothing, not about the situation in Saudi Arabia.
     
  6. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    It's a description
     
  7. tim

    tim Well-Known Member

    It's an insult
     
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  8. ElizabethofYork

    ElizabethofYork Witchsmeller Pursuivant

    It's not insulting the women who are forced to wear it. It's insulting the vile disgusting men who force it on women in Saudi Arabia.
     
    UnderAnOpenSky likes this.
  9. tim

    tim Well-Known Member




    How is the above not an insulting comment on women's choice of clothing. It's talking about choices that women make not about things that are forced upon them.
     
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  10. ElizabethofYork

    ElizabethofYork Witchsmeller Pursuivant

    This thread is about Saudi Arabia.

    In Saudi Arabia, women are forced to wear long black blankets and head coverings.

    There is no choice.
     
  11. tim

    tim Well-Known Member

    The thread is about Saudi Arabia. However, my comment was quite clearly about the misogynistic, patronising, Orientalist section of@Don Troooomp's post. It wasn't about Saudi Arabia, it was about Muslim women's clothing choice in general.

    It really is very clear, so I don't really understand why you are trying to pick an argument about it.
     
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  12. ElizabethofYork

    ElizabethofYork Witchsmeller Pursuivant

    Not quite. Don Troooomp said, in response to a post about Saudi womens' rights continuing to be repressed:

    "Sad, but hardly a shock. The whole thing is more than likely to be window dressing in the hope of putting off actually getting as far as the twentieth century as long as they can.
    I have absolutely no problem with a woman who wants to wear a black blanket but I have absolutely no time for men that make them wear it against their will. As for the rest of their 'rights' - Do I really need to comment?"

    So it's very clear that he was talking about women in Saudi Arabia.

    I agree with him. Don't you?
     
  13. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    An insult in the same way as a mini skirt is a bit of cloth?
     
  14. littleseb

    littleseb littleseb

    of course it is insulting, or patronising at best. it's not a blanket, it's an item of clothing, simple as. why insist on using this term and why keep justifying it?
     
  15. littleseb

    littleseb littleseb

    and, fwiw, saying 'bit of cloth' instead of 'mini skirt' can be deeply patronising and insulting too.
     
  16. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    Buying jeans with holes already in them is fucking stupid.

    That's deliberately insulting to people idiotic enough to buy them. Describing something that looks like a black blanket as a black blanket is descriptive.

    Get that into your thick skull.
     
  17. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Speaking of deliberately insulting...
     
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  18. littleseb

    littleseb littleseb

    it's just a blanket statement.
     
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  19. littleseb

    littleseb littleseb

    no it isn't. some people lead busy lives and don't have the time to rip them themselves.
     
  20. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    Blatant sexism.time - MALE cows are taking all the blame for the stuff you post.
     
  21. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Oh dear, this isn't even pointlessly and deliberately insulting now, it's just gibberish with no relevance to anything.
     
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  22. BristolEcho

    BristolEcho Well-Known Member

    The difference being that Jeans aren't a religious item of clothing and generally not deeply linked to someone's culture/upbringing.

    Calling it a blanket undermines the people that wear it regardless of them being forced too or wearing it by choice. It feeds into people who abuse Muslim women by belittling what they are wearing and is in my opinion quite damaging.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019 at 5:21 PM
    tim likes this.
  23. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    Blanket type dresses are NOT a religious item either. They are deeply linked to the MALE culture in Saudi (and some other places) but I wonder what would happen if Saudi men gave Saudi women a choice.
    I suspect many, probably most, would stop wearing them pretty quickly.
    The things are fine in a hot, 40 degree environment where sand storms are common, but sod all use anywhere else. However, if you were to use that old necessity and corrupt a holy book to suit your goal of absolute male dominance, you could falsely claim it's a religious thing.
    Ignorance also works.

    As for the upbringing bollocks - Yes, the things are pretty much part of a Saudi woman's upbringing because they're fixed into local laws and local male culture, so women have shit all choice. In countries where there are no such oppressive laws AND men don't force women to wear them, how many Muslim women choose them over other types of clothing?
    Some will and do, and that's their choice, but most never buy one and have no interest in doing so.

    The religious argument simply doesn't stand up to the slightest questioning, and the cultural one is down to being whipped if a woman doesn't wear the 'right' clothing.
     
  24. BristolEcho

    BristolEcho Well-Known Member

    In what way do you think describing it as a blanket helps those that are forced to wear it? Do you think that it undermines the person who is wearing and feeds into the oppression they experience?
     
  25. Saul Goodman

    Saul Goodman It's all good, man

    I think you're mistaken in assuming he's trying to help someone. I'm pretty sure he's simply displaying his abject loathing of their culture.
     
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  26. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    I have no means of helping anyone oppressed by anyone else but I can at least make it known I think the whole idea is objectionable.
     
  27. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    No.
     
  28. 8ball

    8ball Resident Right-Winger

    When I read this thread title it always seems like women are some sort of subatomic particle or something. Then I think “independently of *what*?”.

    Not relevant or interesting- just feels like funny phrasing.
     
  29. Don Troooomp

    Don Troooomp Condescension and embedded self importance

    Men, obviously
     
  30. 8ball

    8ball Resident Right-Winger

    Indeed.

    Something about the Been’s phrasing seemed a bit odd.

    I think removing the word ‘independently’ might have been the best adjustment.
     

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