[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Kate Sharpley, May 30, 2017.

London Anarchist Bookfair
Start Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 10:00 AM
End Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 07:00 PM
Time Zone: Europe/London +01:00 BST

Location:
Park View School
West Green Road,
London N15 3QR

Posted By: Kate Sharpley

Confirmed Attendees: 0
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  1. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh. and you suggest above that you see transgenderism as progressive sexual politics. for what reasons?
     
  2. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    I think it's more accurate to say tht they can be (and in my opinion, should be) part of the same thing. But, equally, they needn't be; there's a lot of liberal anti-fascism that's nothing to do with class politics. (Which isn't to say that, even then, liberals and those on the left can't find common ground to work together, and some solidarity.)
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  3. frogwoman

    frogwoman лягушкая женщина

    . Fuck it cba.
     
  4. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Whilst I can't see how an anti-trans position could ever be progressive, it doesn't follow that a pro-trans position is necessarily progressive. It depends on how it's done.

    The most progressive way would be within a theoretical framework of class politics (n.b. I'm not saying trans liberation should be postponed until the class war is won, or anything like that), and through practice that builds class solidarity.

    An obvious example would be for women, trans people and the working class (accepting the enormous overlap) to recognise that we are all harmed by 'gender' (to differing extents), and to recognise the crucial role that system plays for capital.

    And that's something that can happen notwithstanding some quite profound differences of opinion. For instance, it wouldn't be necessary to consider a trans woman a woman to recognise a mutual interest in ending gender roles. But, it would require people to listen to one another and respect differences of opinion, rather than refusing to engage positively (or, worse, seeking to silence) anyone who refuses to accept one's position 100% (e.g. by repeatedly attempting to provoke trans people through pronouns, or ' no platforming' those whose use of pronouns reflects a view you don't share).

    Eta: sorry, meant to post that one the other thread!
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
  5. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    thank you for your answer, which i welcome while i await nice one's thoughts on the subject.
     
  6. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Always a pleasure.
     
  7. Wilf

    Wilf Meeting few of his KPIs

    This is me speaking my braynes or, at best, blurting a random thought out: there's obviously a big issue around recuperation and the way bosses have claimed multiculturalism, diversity and equality as their own - and in doing so either recruited former progressives onto their side or simply blunted/confused the issue for workers/campaigners. That certainly seems to be happening around trans 'inclusion' in the workplace, at least at the level of the public sector and other big employers.

    In terms of this recuperation, I wonder if employers superficially becoming trans friendly and sponsoring awards is an easy win for them? With regard to other social divisions such as gender and race, it's relatively easy to counter their claims, with stats on unequal promotion and pay and the like. But with the relatively smaller number of trans men and women working for an employer it's a bit more difficult to use definitive figures to prove they are not equal/inclusive. It becomes a case of individual stories, something less visible at the collective level (which is a point at which the interface between identity politics and recuperating bosses has its greatest potential).

    Crucially, none of that actually means it necessarily becomes any easier for trans men and women in the workplace, just as state/employer led equality policies more generally are not really a weapon in the hands of women, the disabled, black workers etc. Anyway, suppose I'm just making the obvious point that if you want equality or to wrestle a bit of power back in the workplace, don't look to your boss (or his equality committee) to do it for you*.

    *Though of course there's always a pragmatic issue about using these structures to some extent and in certain circumstances.

    Edit: same issues (pretty much) covered better by stethoscope
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
    Pickman's model likes this.
  8. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

  9. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

  10. chilango

    chilango *shrugs*

  11. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Fuck sake. Any idea why, or have they just had enough?
     
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

  13. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    They supported the guilty party at Hyde Park and people protested this was not on.
    Their professed reasoning for the support was child like.
     
  14. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Just as Robinson becomes a household name we’re witnessing the destruction of the already minuscule autonomous left. Maybe it’s a good thing. A change needs to happen but it doesn’t strike me as positive presently.
     
  15. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    I gather a new legal group will form from the ashes of this one... Less some members
     
  16. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  17. winjer

    winjer holocene death beat

    LDMG supported plenty of "guilty" parties throughout its existence, that's how anarchist legal support works :facepalm:
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  18. winjer

    winjer holocene death beat

    Only of each other.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  19. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    This though was akin to providing support to one party in a domestic punch up.
     
    MadeInBedlam and Edie like this.
  20. Edie

    Edie Well-Known Member

    Yep, the abusive man.
     
    MadeInBedlam and TopCat like this.
  21. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

  22. winjer

    winjer holocene death beat

    Utter bollocks.
     
    19force8 likes this.
  23. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    Its not utter bollocks at all. They decided to support one side in a beef and the side they picked was in my opinion the wrong one.
     
    Edie likes this.
  24. winjer

    winjer holocene death beat

    They supported the person arrested at a demonstration over a scuffle at a demonstration. "a beef"? have a word with yourself.
     
  25. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    Have a word? You are being deliberately obtuse. To support one side in the Hyde Park debacle was a political choice and the wrong choice. Now they pay the price as will those people who wont get support because of the demise.
    Ps if you use the face palm smiley at me again I will be most pissed with you.
     
  26. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    :D
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  27. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    don't think there was a right side. hard pushed to see how ldmg could have supported the other side anyway, as none of them ended up in court.
     
    TopCat likes this.
  28. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    "A scuffle"? Have a word with yourself. It was sex-based violence perpetrated by a biological male who was raised and socialised as a boy/man, against a woman, where even the most cursory glance at the publicly-available footage revealed that to be the case.

    I think it was a mistake to think my enemy's enemy is my friend, on the basis that the prosecution was an exercise in bourgeois law on behalf of the state. Presumably, they wouldn't defend e.g. fascists arrested at demonstrations, even if they purported to 'identify as' anarchists?

    It was a poor decision, as a matter of principle and practical consequences. At most, they should have taken a neutral stance, in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
    Edie and TopCat like this.
  29. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

  30. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Transwomen hitting older feminists because "they are as bad as fascists" is immensely stupid for all sorts of reasons.

    Stupid anarchists still need support and solidarity though.

    As do feminists who get hit at demonstrations, but in this instance they need a different form of solidarity because nobody called the cops on them.
     

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