[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Kate Sharpley, May 30, 2017.

London Anarchist Bookfair
Start Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 10:00 AM
End Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 07:00 PM
Time Zone: Europe/London +01:00 BST

Location:
Park View School
West Green Road,
London N15 3QR

Posted By: Kate Sharpley

Confirmed Attendees: 0
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  1. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Well that remains to be seen, so let's not be pessimistic. :)
     
    TopCat and Pickman's model like this.
  2. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Their heads on sticks. That'll teach 'em.

    When the fuck will people learn that Twitter is fucking useless for sensible discussion? It's for news, not debate ffs.

    Maybe someone will write a response for Freedom to publish...?
     
    Pickman's model and redsquirrel like this.
  3. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    i tell you what, shall we unleash the destructive forces of TAFKNTs and TAs on the tory party conference? be grand to see that ended :cool:
     
  4. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Yes reading it my impression was that there was a lot of words to say something that didn't amount to a lot. I guess that's often a problem when so many people are putting together a statement. (Also I don't agree with the statement "Identity politics are about intersectionality not essentialism" but that's probably being a bit picky)

    FFS when will people realise that twitter is a truly shit place to hold any political discussion. Might be good for some things - quite response/organising but absolutely rubbish for having a sensible conversation, particularly one that all the baggage this one does.
     
  5. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    c4u
     
    LynnDoyleCooper likes this.
  6. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    But what if the NEWS is WRONG, LDC? Eh? Eh? :thumbs:
     
  7. stethoscope

    stethoscope Well-Known Member

    :D
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  8. krink

    krink I'll do it this afternoon

    punk rock was ruined by anarchists. and punks.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    [​IMG]
     
  10. krink

    krink I'll do it this afternoon

    I've started reading that statement in Freedom. I take it Freedom themselves do not approve/support the statement as they don't seem to be on the supporters list and there's nothing in the introduction. It's a terribly written statement - I'm only part way in and even I have spotted a few howlers - so not surprised if Freedom aren't signing up to it.
     
  11. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member


    It's probably obvious to everyone except me, but what's this stand for?
     
    Celyn likes this.
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    The Activists Formerly Known As TERFs
     
    Celyn and andysays like this.
  13. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    post 1826
    andysays
     
  14. Wilf

    Wilf Aghast.

    I think the first bit of the above is interesting, listing trans issues, antifash and class struggle as different things. Might just be a wording thing, but listing them like that suggests you don't do trans politics (or other themes/areas) as part of class politics. But the real thing for me is that the people who wrote and signed up to this commit themselves to intersectionality.

    Edit: pretty much assuming - explicitly stating even - that anarchists should embrace idpols and intersectionality.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  15. belboid

    belboid TUC Off Your Knees

    the point of that statement is surely that one cannot separate class politics, anti-fascism and trans rights struggles into separate struggles, they are all part of the same thing. that is, presumably, what they mean by supporting intersectionality.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  16. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    TAFKATs surely?
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  17. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Good luck getting your neologism into the next update of the OED
     
  18. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh you'd have thought so but no
     
  19. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    such a petty ambition
     
  20. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    for any reason other than making it wholly unpronounceable?
     
  21. stethoscope

    stethoscope Well-Known Member

    I've been pronouncing it taf-kunts, presume that's right?
     
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    in his house at r'lyeh dead cthulhu waits dreaming is pronounceable

    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn: rather less so

    tafknt by comparison is a walk in the park
     
  23. Wilf

    Wilf Aghast.

    Well, literally, it does say that but the bit I quoted is the only bit in the whole thing that relates to any kind of class issues. And this bit: 'it is a part of those struggles as much as they are a part of it' reads like a mere nod towards connecting struggles when the wider approach of ID politics fails to do exactly that.
     
  24. belboid

    belboid TUC Off Your Knees

    It reads to me more like an example of social reproduction theory. It is a statement on a ‘identity politics’ issue, hence it is always going to talk about identity politics issues. But it also says that these are class issues, they cannot be separated. Hence it isn’t ‘the only bit in the whole thing that relates to any kind of class issues’ – because the whole thing is a class issue.
     
    frogwoman likes this.
  25. frogwoman

    frogwoman лягушкая женщина

  26. Nice one

    Nice one Well-Known Member


    Just to be clear: somebody wrote something on here about the women on the radical feminist side associating with dodgy people (you get no counter from me on that score, the left is a open sewer occassionally littered with rafts of lunacy, idiocy that utterly demented self-serving arseholes cling to). But equally the trans advocacy side associate with some dodgy people- the example given is the lgbt awards - which was what helen steel was explicitly talking about in her facebook post.

    The sponsors for these awards include - NatWest, Barclays, HSBC, Mi5, Virigin Atlantic, Pricewaterhouse Coopers, (and bizarrely GMB union).
    The judging panel include:
    Mark Anderson - Executive Vice President - Customer Virgin Atlantic
    Brian Ashmead-Siers - Partner at PwC
    Sue Baines - Director – Barclays Bank
    Philip Bourchier O’Ferrall - Head of Velocity International, Executive Vice President
    Viacom International Media Networks
    Fiona Daniel - Head of Diversity and Inclusion, HSBC
    Samantha Nelson - Vice President, Risk Engineer, Global Energy Practice, Marsh (MMC)
    Daisy Reeves - Partner Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner (law firm)
    Marjorie Strachan - Head of Inclusion Royal Bank of Scotland

    When i saw that i thought - this isn't a celebration of lgbt life, it's a celebration of capitalism. And this is what i think Helen Steel was getting at in her post. I haven't read the facebook thread that followed but if what you're saying is true people then i think she seriously needs to amend her language so there can be no confusion - she's not the sort of person who suffers demented self-serving arseholes whatever their politics.

    She makes exactly the same point you make all of these things that were actually fought for by the LGBT movement weren't just given away, it was decades of people fighting for their rights.

     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
  27. Nice one

    Nice one Well-Known Member

    off the top of my head i would say things like: socialist, feminist, anti-fascist, trade union activist, anti-racist campaigner
     
  28. crossthebreeze

    crossthebreeze Well-Known Member

    Yes and winnners inclided Playboy, Richard Branson, MI5, and a few people who work for banks and other corporates, and a few LGBTQ activists and celebs (I am actually disappointed in Laverne Cox accepting an award (sponsored by Natwest) because I thought she had decent politics which included a class analysis but then again she wasn't actually there to accept the award, so maybe its all done through agents and that and she knows nothing about it). Its also utterly bizarre but almost certainly deliberate that MI5 sponsor the "outstanding contribution to LGBT+ life" awards but its an indication of the recipient not having decent politics that would cause them to refuse such an award rather than being an MI5 asset. The whole awards are disgusting - and so far removed from the lives of most LGBTQ people. Like Helen Steel said, its mostly benefiting rich white men.

    But its classic recuperation. However lots of LGBTQ people - including trans people (sometimes leading on it) - have protested this process of recuperation in the past, which she seems to have missed from her analysis. Its the jump Helen makes from criticising the awards or even analysing what aspects of LGBTQ activism are most easily recuperated by capital and to what purpose to asking "Why has the relatively new ‘trans' ideology made so many gains so fast? Much faster gains than ever achieved by those fighting sexism and racism. Why is this new ideology splitting so many progressive movements with its demands for absolute adherence to that ideology and total intolerance of any debate or critical thinking?" - she seems to be saying that capital (though she concentrates on bankers which y'know is a small step down a very wrong road) and MI5 are driving trans ideology and its "successes" - its conspiracy nonsense.
     
  29. stethoscope

    stethoscope Well-Known Member

    I'd argue that she's not really even right with that though - trans rights (and as a political 'movement') has always been ten years behind Lesbian & Gay rights, it's just that trans visibility has broke mainstream in the last five and is, at present, seeing a quicker pace of public awareness and discourse and trans people have found a stronger voice. But, also comes the backlash as we're partly seeing now too. And why 'play' feminism, anti-racism, etc. off against trans people and rights? I did grant Steel with a bit more of an analysis and awareness of this, given her political history, and regardless of her personal opinions on some of this, but some of what's she's been saying and other people she's been retweeting is very disappointing.

    Ten years ago, capital and state institutions were already exploiting LGB people in a big way, Pride became commercial, every bank was selling it's 'gay friendly' credentials - at least, and I think this is important too, to middle class LGB people. Trans stuff was still struggling to get even basic name changes with banks sorted properly without any draconian crap. I don't understand, therefore, why, trans rights are now being singled out especially. Not only that, but in the longer time period which we've had black liberation, a number of waves of feminism, lesbian & gay liberation and now trans rights coming to the fore, this country (and the World) has massively shifted to a neoliberal one. And so mainstream liberation/rights end up sitting inside capital and liberal structures (as do a lot of what we see with BAME rights too - look at the current stuff about Oxbridge - just about improving diversity of intake not why such institutions are a problem). But, trans rights for years had to fight against state structures. Again, it's about class primarily.
     
  30. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    if a minority group gains rights quickly, people shouldn't ask 'who is pushing their rights to fuck with mine?', they should be congratulating them on the rapid advance. who gains if conspiracy is submitted as an explanation of things?
     

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