[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Kate Sharpley, May 30, 2017.

London Anarchist Bookfair
Start Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 10:00 AM
End Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 07:00 PM
Time Zone: Europe/London +01:00 BST

Location:
Park View School
West Green Road,
London N15 3QR

Posted By: Kate Sharpley

Confirmed Attendees: 0
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  1. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Rights activism is about treatment of the individual under capitalism. Socialism is about the interests of the group (united by class). Could idpol even exist under socialism? It’s particular to Neo-Liberalism.
     
  2. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    I don't think a hypothetical discussion like this is particularly useful to be honest, Andy. I'm sure it could be interesting but my main priority is seeing if the Bookfair can happen again and I expect there to be all sorts of practical, political and personal issues that need to be addressed for that to work - and they really should be done face to face with people and not on a public forum like this.
     
  3. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    so what you're saying is that we should allow jen izaakson, former editor of london student, who has identified as a socialist for more than five years, some leeway based on journalistic laziness. how much leeway should we allow her for the claim about carceral feminism?
     
    Badgers likes this.
  4. stethoscope

    stethoscope Well-Known Member

    It's a pity if they're a fucking 'Marxist' that whatever their opinions on the politics of all this shit, that they can't at least just be vaguely 'respectful' and not use phrases like 'trans-identified male' about a trans woman (even though I have little interest in defending this Wolf either). It's just more shit fucking politics that is divisive and doesn't ever find any way forward.
     
    Plumdaff, frogwoman, MrSpikey and 9 others like this.
  5. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    sure, but this is potentially problematic whatever the class composition of society. The other day a woman said to me she didn't want penises in womens changing rooms. I don't see why that sentiment should exist only within a context of neoliberalism, capitalism or individual rights based society. It's a pretty fundamental concept with the capability to divide in any society.
     
  6. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam 'He bloody well thinks he's staff!'

    But it comes back to class doesn't it? The pitting of trans rights vs women's rights is facilitated by the poverty that both wc trans people and women are subject to. Take hospitals/crisis houses for example. If the resources were put into these services, then it would be much easier to have facilities which reflect the rights of everyone.

    I can't remember ever reading of Caitlyn Jenner ever having difficulty finding a loo, or being hassled in hospital by other patients because of being a transwoman in a female facility
     
  7. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    I agree with this. I don’t understand the desire to be disrespectful.
     
  8. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Fair enough
     
    Fozzie Bear likes this.
  9. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    may claim to be a marxist but comes across as an effete and ineffectual liberal
     
    Badgers likes this.
  10. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    I’m just saying that ‘Antifa’ has moved into common parlance, as has the view that masking up is their ‘uniform’. Dumbing down politics to reach a wider audience should be understood by anyone who’s ever had in interest in Class War, for example. Wasn’t that the MO of the original magazine?
     
  11. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    It’s a consequence of patriarchy which hopefully wouldn’t exist under socialism. Of course, it might. But what’s happening at the moment is a consequence of the dominant ideologies we’re living under.
     
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh. we've moved on from that, i'm asking you about the amount of leeway we should give her on what appears to be a claim without basis. why are you refusing to answer such a simple question?
     
    Badgers likes this.
  13. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    The question about her claim about Class War? It’s fair that you critique that. I haven’t said otherwise.
     
  14. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    grand
     
    Badgers likes this.
  15. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Bizarre that you were pressing me on it. Either she’s making it up or there’s something in the history of CW that she knows that’s making her say it.
     
  16. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    nothing bizarre about it at all. what i see as laziness on the one hand and invention on the other seems of a sort with the remainder of the piece. you suggest a different motive for the antifa bit but nothing about her peculiar claim about carceral feminism, a phrase i never heard until this morning.

    but tell you what, search as i did for
    and tell me how many things actually by cw loudly ranting about it you find.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  17. belboid

    belboid TUC Off Your Knees

    Nonsense. Identity politics can be group based, or individual based. The Combahee River Collective, the likes of bell hooks, MOVE all argued for a group identity, and showed how individuals within those groups were more under the threat of, eg, imperialism, and violence than people outside of those groups.
     
    Rutita1 likes this.
  18. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam 'He bloody well thinks he's staff!'

    EF4946E8-CB6C-4558-8147-F43FB61AE539.jpeg This is an excellent thread on the subject of crisis houses by a comrade who access crisis houses

     
    frogwoman likes this.
  19. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    And some in the Black Panthers recognised that they had to form commonality with people outside of their identity - class politics. For those that didn’t the outcome they argued for was Black Nationalism / separatism. Which do you think is the more preferable?
     
  20. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    on the face of that's sailing very close to saying that not only is gender a social construct that can become extinct in the absence of patriarchy but so also are biological sex differences.

    agree
     
  21. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam 'He bloody well thinks he's staff!'

    909F484A-9369-4266-A5AD-9D671D1753C0.jpeg 842954BC-0BC8-4047-8920-EA3492D92B8C.png E33DEEF8-D7F9-473B-813D-4B0956BDF955.png

    (a couple of the photos have come up as thumbnails)
     

    Attached Files:

    frogwoman likes this.
  22. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    You would need to ask her what she meant but I wouldn’t subscribe to the notion that if it isn’t on the internet it didn’t happen.
     
  23. belboid

    belboid TUC Off Your Knees

    I dont think simplistic dichotomies are any kind of answer. That kind of group collective response is absolutely essential so that we can say more than 'patriarchy hopefully won't exist under socialism'. It is not either/or, and such a simplistic reduction does no one any favours.
     
  24. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    It isn’t a simple reduction, I was saying I wouldn’t want to speculate.
     
  25. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    upload_2018-5-17_11-10-23.png
    if it ain't on the internet they're hardly loud critics of carceral feminism.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  26. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    I sort of get your point but eg my mother is a critic of Trump and I’d bet my last quid that isn’t on the internet.
     
  27. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    it is now: pls to donate a quid to the server fund. but your mother isn't, when last i checked, a prominent anarchist organization with an internet presence.
     
    Badgers, Omaplata and Magnus McGinty like this.
  28. belboid

    belboid TUC Off Your Knees

    speculate on what??
     
  29. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    My guess was that it pertains to internal discipline rather than a policy. But it is only a guess.
     
  30. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    On whether socialism would be free from patriarchy. Perhaps you have a crystal ball, I don’t.
     

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