[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Kate Sharpley, May 30, 2017.

London Anarchist Bookfair
Start Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 10:00 AM
End Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 07:00 PM
Time Zone: Europe/London +01:00 BST

Location:
Park View School
West Green Road,
London N15 3QR

Posted By: Kate Sharpley

Confirmed Attendees: 0
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  1. Yet, that’s pretty much what this entire thing is about. Strange world.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  2. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    as was clear from my observation of leafletting before i got to the bookfair, when someone was leafleting the pub opposite, the purpose of the leafleting was to provoke a response rather than raise awareness / strengthen a campaign etc.
     
    redsquirrel, TopCat and Fozzie Bear like this.
  3. stethoscope

    stethoscope Well-Known Member

    This.
     
  4. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    You don't want any dissent at all. Or discussion. Nor debate. Just acceptance when you go into bullshit mode.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  5. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Why should the measure of whether a thread ought to be binned be the extent to which contributors to it share your conception of your gender/wish to engage with you?
     
  6. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    It's not possible to fully discuss the GRA without discussing gender. And that's something you're not willing to debate. For instance the question of 'what is a woman'? It seems to me that anyone who doesn't subscribe to your definition is someone you consider a transphobe, and who should be silenced, and that any expression of such an opinion is personal abuse.
     
  7. belboid

    belboid TUC Off Your Knees

    On a thread about trans rights, how one of the few trans people taking part in it is treated is of fairly obvious relevance.
     
    nyxx and Thimble Queen like this.
  8. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    She can take part or not, as she pleases. But the fact that she doesn't want to when it goes places she doesn't like is not to say it ought to be closed. If she was abused, then those doing so should have been dealt with. It just seems a little convenient that the claimed abuse was the pretext for the whole thread being closed
     
  9. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist slowtime

    'Would you fuck one?' was the point where that thread should have been closed. Pretty astonishing stuff really. Now people may talk (and they will) about context regarding that but I won't be answering. Cos cards on the table, I don't know what to think anymore because the debate has become vicious lines drawn and I refuse to be*. But it has to be better than this.


    #coward
     
  10. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Yeah, shit like that is completely unacceptable. But I'm not sure why the small number of offenders can't be dealt with, rather than the whole thing shut down.
     
  11. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Whatever points, genuine points, there may be are lost in the exchange of vitriol.
     
  12. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    Unless they are Miranda Yardley?
     
  13. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    The fact that you stood as a candidate for the Green Party in the last GE and the recent council elections is absolutely relevant on this, the Anarchist Bookfair thread. Whatever the participation of Anarchists and/or Socialists in groups you may have been involved in in the 90s, your current political choices mean that you are not "invested in" the Bookfair in the way that many others here are.

    Your claims not to ally yourself with ID politics are nonsense, your behaviour over numerous threads speaks for itself, as does your repeated focus on who is speaking rather than what they are saying.

    And your behaviour in throwing around baseless accusations of transphobic bigotry towards anyone who disagrees with you has contributed hugely to the toxic level of debate on numerous threads, including the ones you have actively called for the closure of. So while you're not the only one responsible, you're as responsible as anyone for the fact that there are currently no threads existing where trans issues can be debated.

    We've already seen last year's ABF disrupted by the behaviour of zealots from both sides of the Trans/TERF feud, and the future of Bookfairs is in question as a result. I really can't see why those of us who do have an interest in the original subject of this thread should have to put up with you and others dragging your toxic feud here and poisoning yet another thread as you have done previously.
     
    TopCat and Pickman's model like this.
  14. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    I'd forgotten about that comment and it was a fucking disgrace.

    There was cuntish behaviour on both sides frankly, and given how much shit was flung around, I can sympathise with whoever decided enough was enough and closed the thread.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  15. emanymton

    emanymton A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.

    I'd be interested to know which posters denied you are a women. Can you please provide links to the appropriate posts?
     
    Pickman's model and Voley like this.
  16. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    I think what you're saying is the opposite of cowardly tbh, in this climate to say no thanks i'm not going to just 'pick a side' and pretend it's all simple.
     
  17. I think there’s been one who said so when pushed for an answer and a handful of others who perhaps think the same but haven’t expressed it outright. Certainly not ‘most’ posters though, not even close.
     
    Pickman's model, Voley and emanymton like this.
  18. Edie

    Edie Well-Known Member

    I think Sea Star is a trans woman. Nothing wrong with that.
     
    TopCat likes this.
  19. Voley

    Voley Ramoner

    A sweeping statement that seems wildly inaccurate to me. I've seen one person say this to you and that was when you repeatedly asked her for her opinion.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  20. Sea Star

    Sea Star peace and love; peace and love

    oh, is that what you think is going on?

    Then you're blind or you don;t want to see it.
     
  21. Sea Star

    Sea Star peace and love; peace and love

    I'm a woman.

    I'm also trans - but that's not as important as the first bit (above).
     
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    the tenor of what's passed for debate has been more generally characterised by 'terf cunt' and comments about how trans women are men than by anything passing for a reasoned exchange of ideas - it's much more reminiscent of the auld euphemism 'a frank exchange of views occurred' than by any attempts to really discuss the issues, where the issues got lost in a fog of insults and abuse.



    yes. this point has been addressed above but your contribution, including that portion about visual disabilities, is noted
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    Badgers likes this.
  23. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Sea Star i haven't seen anything in the past six months to persuade me to reassess the view i held at the start of december
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
    Badgers, redsquirrel and newbie like this.
  24. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Anyway, in the hope that we can return this thread to its original subject...

    I agree that it's for the Bookfair organisers to come to a collective decision about how to act in response to disruptive behaviour, but I was also hoping some here might be willing to discuss the issue, even hypothetically, and explore what some of their options might be and what people thought of them.

    One obvious option would be to ban someone who had seriously disrupted from attending future Bookfairs, though I can see that some might have reservations about that.

    General question: is there any precedent for people being banned from attending Bookfairs?
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  25. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    i expect any bans to have a) been informal, and b) rarely communicated to the organisers.
     
    andysays likes this.
  26. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    People were made aware their presence might provoke a scuffle. The odd one or two exiled.
     
    Pickman's model and andysays like this.
  27. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    So there is some sort of precedent for "banning" the leafleter (was it just one leafleter or were there more?) and members of the mob (those who could be identified anyway) who attacked her.
     
  28. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    But mostly for appaling personal behaviour rather than politics.

    Given the range of views on offer at the bookfair, I would assert it has been characterised by tolerence and co operation.

    That wannabe poisonous shit Sam Ambreen did a good attempt at disrupting the bookfair a few years back with her KILL ALL MEN intersectionalist chirping.

    Her attempt to kill off the bookfair failed as people showed cool heads and solidarity.
     
  29. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    No there is not a precedent. I'm thinking more of threats of violence that would have been unknown to the organisers and would have upset them. This was the 80's to be fair.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  30. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    the people i can think had the undesirability of their presence communicated to them in no uncertain terms, but as TopCat says, this wasn't done through 'official channels' but by what i'd characterise as informal means and tc would call threats of violence. people like fascists and so forth, generally not people who were anarchists of any stripe ime - but i'm thinking of the 1990s, maybe early 2000s.
     
    Badgers likes this.

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