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[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Kate Sharpley, May 30, 2017.

London Anarchist Bookfair
Start Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 10:00 AM
End Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 07:00 PM
Time Zone: Europe/London +01:00 BST

Location:
Park View School
West Green Road,
London N15 3QR

Posted By: Kate Sharpley

Confirmed Attendees: 0
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  1. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper It's a complicated world innit.

    Cheers, it was there then moved down the page. Have edited my link.
     
    Pickman's model and ska invita like this.
  2. smokedout

    smokedout criminal

    Obsessively post on every transgender discussion you can find explaining to everyone what feminists should think about this and what transgender people should think in response.
     
  3. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    I was commenting on the Christian right article. The more recent one seems far more nuanced (albeit there's significant aspects with which I disagree).
     
  4. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Except I haven't done that; you won't find a single post where I've explained to anyone what either feminists or trans people should think (at most, I've described what some do). But you know that; your post is exactly the sort of dishonest nonsense I was talking about.
     
    Fatuous Sunbeam and emanymton like this.
  5. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

    Hmm. Think you're a lot more guilty of telling people what they should/shouldn't think/worry about than Athos is.

    And you post pretty obsessively on those threads too. Which is fine but I wonder why you think it isn't for other people to do the same?
     
  6. Dogsauce

    Dogsauce Lord of the Dance Settee

    To me this doesn't seem a million miles away from reactionary pricks/'concerned parents' saying gay people shouldn't adopt or teach children because some of them might be paedos. Could you or someone else explain the difference, and why this argument is OK?

    Plus I'm also not seeing any acknowledgement in the arguments on this thread that trans people are very often victims of violence and rape themselves, and maybe a bit of understanding as to why the seeking of 'safe spaces' and solidarity might be in order.
     
  7. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    tbh it has been discussed at length on the recent Trans Perplexed thread
     
  8. 19force8

    19force8 For the avoidance of faith

    I'd say it's more like the UKIP, Sun and Express scaremongering about millions of Romanians and Bulgarians flooding into the UK in 2014. It didn't happen of course, and the evidence suggests self-identification won't lead to the elimination of the rights of women either.

    But reality's not what these moral panics are about, they're intended to promote and reinforce prejudice and intolerance.
     
    nyxx likes this.
  9. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Says two blokes to each other.
     
    MadeInBedlam and weepiper like this.
  10. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    typical id pol response etc
     
  11. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam 'He bloody well thinks he's staff!'

    Stopped clock etc though
     
  12. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Yeah, the concerns of ordinary women is just like UKIP.
     
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  13. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    pulling your leg is all
     
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  14. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

  15. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    well, having a little dig in the there too.
     
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  16. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    As you ought to.
     
  17. thisweb

    thisweb Member

    or maybe they had a point worth discussing? Its more complex than shouting transphobic end of. I dont know if the 'terfs' were spoiling for a fight or a genuine debate. But there are trans people who agree with the issue they raised about the new laws. Are they transphobic too? Being gender critical is not transphobic. Gender is primarily a class, whatever else it might also be. see: To Boys Who Don't Fit In - A Guest Post by Jesse - Gender Apostates
     
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  18. 19force8

    19force8 For the avoidance of faith

    Have you read the leaflet? [there are copies on pages 3 & 4 of this thread]

    Jesse's post is an opinion that could reasonably be debated. The leaflet is a slap in the face full of vile innuendo, prejudice and lies. It's hard to imagine a debate with the author(s) that didn't quickly descend into a slanging match.
     
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  19. thisweb

    thisweb Member

     
  20. thisweb

    thisweb Member

    Ok, well theres this thing called feminism. And there is no thing called mannanism. You see women are oppressed by men and fear men. Always have because men oppress women and scare them. This isnt true in reverse. If you think feminism is stupid and not needed then I can see why you think this is like the gay men thing. If however you understadn why feminims exists, then its nothing like the gay men thing. Not least because gay men didnt try and claim a right to enter oppressed peoples spaces. Like women, gay men are opressed. Also by men.
     
  21. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

  22. thisweb

    thisweb Member

    The leaflets express a gender critical argument. Theres no ineuendo or vileness to them that I can see. You have just asserted that without thinking of specifics. As many have. I think because posting the specifics would actually cause people to think. Im happy to debate each line on the leaflets. I support trans rights. But not their right to use parliament to demand other women accept them in their spaces and be told what it means to be a women is not what they have known all their lives to be - one of oppresion by perception of their birth genitalia.. Trans people say they were 'asigned famale at birth' That is to a feminist the exact definition of a woman. And its the cause of their oppresion. Thats why women bathrooms and prisons exist. It would be nice to have gender netral everything. For men and women to share prison cells. But until we fix the society where 1 in 5 women are raped, and more harreased and abused by men, we can't do that. They want that fixed before they are forced to share those cells. Or for that matter, work places. And why are trans anarchists defending new parliamentary laws anyway? Feminists just want men and trans people to behave, anarchistically, and be sympathetic to why women fear men, and trans women. Since they havent had that for, like, 2000 years. Incedently, violence among trans women is higher than it is among trans men, its equal to violence from men. (no im not useing the term cis men - no one was asisgned cis at birth - so i have no idea why trans people demand iam called cis, let alone the given the fact they think we shoudl be able to decide our gender, nbot have it imposed- another unaddressed doublespeak )
     
  23. thisweb

    thisweb Member

    ' the “gender wars” are less a war than a one way attack. An attack that mirrors the power dynamics already in place within society of males on the top calling the shots, and females (those assigned female at birth) on the bottom being forced to make amendments to how they live their lives (now forcibly assigned as “cis-women” and giving up the term “female”, for example) so that they can navigate delicate egos and the threat of and use of violence. The attacks that are made against women in the name of “trans activism” are uncalled for, disgusting and do nothing but throw smoke over the fact that the real problem and the real threat comes from Males, gender and patriarchy.' Theressa May is supporting a change in the law to allow anyone to identify as a women. if it doesn't tell you all you need to know, it should at least cause any anti-'terf' anarchist to think more carefully about whats going on. Misogyny and patriarchy still exists. Why not call for men to accommodate transwomen in their spaces, and why don't transwomen not to demand scared women protect them in their spaces but demand that men stop harming them in mens spaces? Why must the women always do the care work? Because patriarchy is a violent fucker. Thats why. And its females who are being blamed and ask to pick up the pieces for this mess. By a joint alliance of supposed anarchists and the tory party!! These trans activists partially destroyed feminism and anarchy in one foul swoop. Suported by Class War and other anarchist groups, alongside Theresa May. WTF! Even the DUP didn't protest. Why? I thought the right loved to hate trans people? May herself voted aginst trans rights before she was home secretery. What changed? Male power. Thats what changed. I'm against marriage too: the 'right' for gays to get married was another patriarchal trick, an own goal for the entire left. I totally support gay love/gay sex/ gayness (i hate the concept of rights, and that word), but any state certified marriage is an abomination for anarchists. It can never be an improvement for the lives of gay people in the context of egalitarianism, anarchy or even liberal socialism. Of course few would be openly against gay marriage or point out its backwardness at trying to move forward since to proclaim or debate such a view would require a wanton desire for a black eye and a disregard for the fact that most peoples logic goes about as deep as a birdbath. And now it seems, even in anarchist circles, the birdbath has dried up. Anarchy is fucked right now. Its had its heart ripped out by politically naive dimwits. Brainwashed by 'radical' left wing pundits and supposed feminist critics and right on pro trans people ( Vice, Buzzfeed, Jezebel , Guardian - all owned and run by male venture capitalists waiting to rape women of their money, their lives, their labour, their freedoms and probably somewhere through that line of business, their vaginas) . By all means lend your vote for social progress, make the material compromises you must to progress the cause of anarchist principles, but don't get lost in their ideology. Support trans rights. Support womens rights. Men can support the rights of women, without invading their spaces. Transwomen can too. Fuck the logic of capitalism and patriarchy, we need to get that bookfair back open and make peace by debating the arguments that caused the fight, not silencing them. And move on with the task of overthrowing the psychopathic state. Yeh Im fucking angry.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  24. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam 'He bloody well thinks he's staff!'

    What peaks your suspicion?
     
    19force8 likes this.
  25. 19force8

    19force8 For the avoidance of faith

    Slowly backs towards door, fixed smile on face, firm grip on axe behind back.
     
  26. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam 'He bloody well thinks he's staff!'


    Well in lieu of any argument you might as well
     
  27. thisweb

    thisweb Member

    If you aren't angry, then you've not been paying attention. And, im guessing, you probably aren't a woman (assigned at birth) amirite?. :rolleyes:
     
  28. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    When you are quoting a blog, article, someone else (maybe this is you though) it's helpful to link to what you are quoting.

    Male Violence Is The Problem
     
  29. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Yeah but are the white liberals cis or trans?
     
  30. Sea Star

    Sea Star trans women are women; trans men are men

    bullshit. Either you can't read or you're lying on purpose.

    TERFs get told by author of study that they are interpreting her study wrong, they insist they aren’t

    Fact check: study shows transition makes trans people suicidal – The TransAdvocate

     

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