[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Kate Sharpley, May 30, 2017.

London Anarchist Bookfair
Start Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 10:00 AM
End Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 07:00 PM
Time Zone: Europe/London +01:00 BST

Park View School
West Green Road,
London N15 3QR

Posted By: Kate Sharpley

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  1. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    I wouldn't be demanding prosecutions of anyone involved in any of this nonsense if i was you. I don't think you realise just who you will be more likely to end up in trouble from it - aside from the idiocy of demanding legal intervention in political disputes.
  2. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    Tbf it’s publicly available information.
    Rutita1 likes this.
  3. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Sassy McFlashy

    Well quite. Which is my point. It puts the snidey comment about rich posting it up into perspective. That and knowing Rich. It's an absurd suggestion.
    Sea Star and rich! like this.
  4. rich!

    rich! stalin tache

    And i took a look on streetmap before posting it.

    Still curious about the newly created domain with no content but i guess "we're doing a leaflet we need a website" isnt uncommon.
    Rutita1 likes this.
  5. Mation

    Mation real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold

    What I get from your post is that you don't believe that trans women are women and that you feel very threatened by the idea that anyone should consider them so. They've cancelled Christmas and you can't say anything transphobic anymore without people calling you transphobic.

    Is your biology erased by cis women born without a vagina? Are you worried that you can't talk about breast-feeding because it excludes cis women who have never been mothers or who are but haven't breastfed? I suspect not.

    I have experiences as a woman that are more common to women than to other genders, and that are shared by some but not all other women (trans or cis). I'm still a woman. The fact that not all women share the same experiences doesn't threaten the fact that I'm a woman.

    You don't want equality for all, imo. You want to pull up the drawbridge.
    ddraig, belboid, pengaleng and 4 others like this.
  6. Sea Star

    Sea Star have you ever explored your dark side?

    I'd like to see condemnation for the TERFs who use personal information to attack trans women and our supporters, many of whom are cis women.

    Even as I found myself being attacked in exactly this way just a few weeks ago. Unfortunately I don't have access to mass media to whip my supporters up into a frenzy over it.

    It seems condemnation only goes one way. Especially as it looks very much like a cis woman who supported trans inclusion was punched by a TERF supporting cis man without a peep about violence against women.
    Mation likes this.
  7. Mation

    Mation real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold

    That's a really dodgy bit of advice. Are you really meaning to suggest that someone who believes that an action constitutes hate speech should back off from suggesting that the laws on hate speech should apply, in case they piss off the wrong people?
    abstract1, Thimble Queen and Sea Star like this.
  8. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    I'm suggesting that introducing demands for prosecution into this is likely to backfire directly on the people that sea star wishes to support over this and previous incidents.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  9. Mation

    Mation real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold

    That boils down to asking for support nicely, rather than doing what's right. The latter might turn out not to be effective but the former never is, if support is conditional on it.
    Sea Star and Thimble Queen like this.
  10. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    It boils down to not opening your own side up to prosecution - an expanded wider prosecution at that- by making hasty ill-thought through demands for prosecution of your enemies. And in this conflict, it's sea stars side that are the ones with things wide open to prosecution all over the internet. A tit-for-tat front here will surely hurt them more.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  11. Mation

    Mation real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold

    I'm not at all sure that that's true, but if you're wanting to offer helpful, pragmatic and impartial advice to a 'side', you might be better to drop the usernames and state the positions you mean instead.
  12. kenny g

    kenny g Sheeple Wake up!

    Has anyone considered the states involvement in all of this? All looks extremely convenient, and has been happening for the past few years.
    Mation and rich! like this.
  13. Humirax

    Humirax Guest

    Having seen what Bray has to say about anti-fascism and as others have recommended his book, I'm sure (despite some inaccuracies) it is still worth a read.
  14. gamerunknown

    gamerunknown Well-Known Member

    Not really. The bookfair policy here says nothing about transphobia, but how much shrift would have been given to someone handing out leaflets about the Immigration Act and race realism?

    No, they are transphobes, but may be doing it for reasons completely perpendicular to promoting feminism, like this guy. Or maybe they believe every position should be open for debate and discussion at the anarchist bookfair - in which case, good luck having some National Syndicalist stall next to Jewdas and picking up a tome from Rothbard on your way to the Veggie stall.

    They claim the act removes women's legal right to name men as men (i.e. misgender), but that was already in place in the 2010 Equality Act tbf.
    pengaleng and Pickman's model like this.
  15. Humirax

    Humirax Guest

    Fair enough, I take your point.
  16. Sea Star

    Sea Star have you ever explored your dark side?

    Do I have a side now? Sorry, i just thought i wanted equal rights as a human being, and as a woman.

    I see double standards again. Generally, people seem quite happy to introduce the law into political disputes that stray into the arena of hate speech. But when trans people suggest such a thing we're told we're idiots. Great!

    And I have to wonder what prosecutable things "my side" are open to. And what is "my side"?

    I actually, naively thought i was protected from hate speech by the law.

    Also - I am not and never have been a man. Why the hell do some people want the legal right to claim something to be true that isn't true? And why do others support that position? It's beyond me. I just want to live my life as a woman, and not as some sort of second class woman/ third gender or, worse, be forced to live as a man.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
    Puddy_Tat, Thimble Queen and Mation like this.
  17. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    One of the flashpoints once the conflict had started was the use of cameras. More than one trans-person was filming/taking pictures of people within the Bookfair. When confronted I heard them at least once say 'This is what we do with fascists, we film them to expose them.'

    A good friend of mine was really upset when walking past the row, and stopped to see what was going on, someone (a transwoman) held a camera in her face and said 'You're a TERF, I'm going to put you all over the internet.'
    shygirl likes this.
  18. smokedout

    smokedout criminal

    Most of the things that leaflet references are already in place under the Equalities Act.

    The act, or amendments to the gender recognition act, do not even exist. No bill has been published and it wasn't in the Queen's Speech. All that has happened so far is a consultation has been announced (but not yet published). The people behind that leaflet seem to be both too late and jumping the gun at the same time.

    National LGBT survey - GOV.UK
    Mation and Pickman's model like this.
  19. crossthebreeze

    crossthebreeze Well-Known Member

    There was also this select committee report last year.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  20. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty IdProle

    Depends on who they are. Militant anti-fascists wouldn’t call for state actions against the opposition. And this happened at an anarchist event who would likely agree with that position.
    MrSpikey, gawkrodger, TopCat and 4 others like this.
  21. smokedout

    smokedout criminal

    Select committe reports are not law.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  22. crossthebreeze

    crossthebreeze Well-Known Member

    I know!
  23. smokedout

    smokedout criminal

    Now I understand. The leaflet seems to be in response to both a private member's bill published by Maria Miller which ran out of time due to the election and no longer exists, and the select committee report. This bill called for 'gender identity' to become a protected charicteristic under law instead of '“gender reassignment” as is currently the case. If you read the committee report this seems to have been recommended for legal reasons, gender identity is probably already covered by the current legislation but would require a test case to establish that with certainty.

    The leaflet seems to be confusing this old bill with the upcoming consultation and assuming that every single recommendation proposed by the committee will be in any new bill that might one day arise. Which is not very honest of them.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
  24. shygirl

    shygirl Well-Known Member

  25. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    Urban dictionary? Really?
    Pickman's model likes this.
  26. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    shygirl do you have stats on attacks on trans women?

    Oh: are prisons really a safe space?
  27. smokedout

    smokedout criminal

    pengaleng and Pickman's model like this.
  28. shygirl

    shygirl Well-Known Member

    Fuck your intellectual snobbery. I used urban dic to give a sense of the common views of what 'terf' means.

    No, I don't have stats, but I'm very aware of the disturbingly high level (no stats either) of violent attacks on women day in and day out in
    their homes. And I refute that I or any other woman who has concerns about trans-women sharing female born women's safe spaces are responsible for violence against trans women.

    If it all means that I don't accept that someone born a male or female who then goes on to transition fully or not becomes the opposite sex, then so be it. Emperor's new clothes comes to mind.

    I think that trans-women activists need to campaign for safe spaces for trans-women.

    I don't claim prisons to be safe spaces, and am aware that prison officers and female prisoners do violently and sexually assault females. I'm just not comfortable with trans-women being placed in female prisons. There is currently a trans-woman prisoner in a female prison, and she sadly has been segregated from the other prisoners, which must be terribly isolating. If there were units in prisons for trans-women, their safety could be better guaranteed.
    Fatuous Sunbeam and MadeInBedlam like this.
  29. shygirl

    shygirl Well-Known Member

    And I would support and fight for safe spaces for trans-women.
  30. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    Yeh. If you're going to hand out fuck you's please aim them at the right person. As for prisons you preceded that with a bit about access to safe spaces. You explicitly said you were talking about safe spaces *including prisons in your list*. See your post 114. And sort out the quote in it,you missed out a ]
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017

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