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[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Kate Sharpley, May 30, 2017.

London Anarchist Bookfair
Start Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 10:00 AM
End Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 07:00 PM
Time Zone: Europe/London +01:00 BST

Location:
Park View School
West Green Road,
London N15 3QR

Posted By: Kate Sharpley

Confirmed Attendees: 0
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  1. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Who is 'mis' gendering depends on your perspective, though. Are you seriousy suggesting that the only women who whoud be able to debate what it means to be a woman are those who agree with you (and me) on that question?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  2. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    I think one of the other issues as well is that many women who have mainstream media platforms and are transphobic have no politics apart from femminism. Undermine their sense of femminism and they are left with nothing to cloak them from accusations that in fact they have far better lives than most men.
     
  3. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    i think what you're driving at is they're well-heeled and unrepentantly middle class.
     
    TopCat likes this.
  4. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    Plus bigoted towards men. Im thinking of Greer, Freeman, Toynbee etc.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  5. bimble

    bimble uber-hippy twonk peanut

    What do you think it means to be a woman then Athos. We deserve to know. :p
    I do wonder about what the point of the category is at all, if what woman means is 'people who identify as women' it all get a bit circular doesn't it.
     
  6. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    what's your stake in the series of incidents under discussion? i mean, you're not an anarchist (or if you are you've concealed it very well), what's this to-do to do with you?
     
    TopCat likes this.
  7. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    Someone start a thread. What does it mean to be a woman?
     
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  8. bimble

    bimble uber-hippy twonk peanut

    Pickman's model I see the anarchist bookfair incident and fallout as a microcosm of the wider issue , which is where my interest lies, not in the bookfair or the statements of these tiny groups , as I thought I’d made clear. I’d love to live in a world without hierarchy but don’t go round calling myself an anarchist that’s true (and I liked the bookfair a lot though only went a couple of times)
     
  9. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh. a microcosm of the wider issue. which is?
     
    TopCat likes this.
  10. bimble

    bimble uber-hippy twonk peanut

    I'd have to think about that before tying out a glib sentence in reply. basically I am very skeptical about the whole idea of gender as an innate thing.
     
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  11. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    I give you a like for being straight up.
     
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  12. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    For all intents and purposes in my life, I'm happy to consider as a woman anyone who identifies as such. But I wouldn't force that definition on women for two reasons: first, I'm a man; and, secondly, I never have to deal with any of those marginal cases e.g. rape shelters.

    Interesting question; start a thread on it?
     
  13. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh. so this has nothing to do with communication, negotiation, acceptance of people's differences, respect for people or a hundred other 'wider issues' raised by the events on 28/10.
     
    TopCat likes this.
  14. bimble

    bimble uber-hippy twonk peanut

    :rolleyes: I said i'd have to think before writing you a proper answer (to the question why do I care about this whole thing). I might have a go at doing that later but, you know, it'd take more than 30 seconds.
     
    TopCat likes this.
  15. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh. i got a hint of where your more thoughtful answer might go from your mention of gender.
     
  16. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    To accept such (about gender being innate) rather pisses on femminist theory no? Simone de Beauviour's The Second Sex for example and much of Greer and Dworkin's writings.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  17. bimble

    bimble uber-hippy twonk peanut

    Yeah, how de beuvoir said 'One is not born but rather becomes a woman'. You can read that in a different way now.
     
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  18. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Now it means none of the social processes that produced a woman exist. It's just a matter of declaration.
     
  19. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    Or that there are many roads leading to that destination.
     
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  20. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    With no traveling though.
     
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  21. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    Its not a surprise or shouldn't be that this political push was going to get the backs up of femminsts. Yelling ugly terf cunt was probably less alarming or threatening.
     
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  22. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    Some are very short roads.
     
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  23. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    They’re not supporting the TERF position which is what you claimed was ‘leading the debate’ in ‘lefty circles’.
     
  24. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    You've been on this thread for weeks without apparently thinking what the wider issue is. Weird. Very weird.
     
  25. bimble

    bimble uber-hippy twonk peanut

    Don't be daft. I've tried many times to express what I think and where my concerns lie, on here and the other thread related to trans rights issues. I've no idea what you think though, if anything.
     
    MadeInBedlam and Magnus McGinty like this.
  26. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    Yeh. But when asked what the larger issue is iyo after more than a month of posting you say oh noes I can't be answering that without a load more thought. So what you've been saying doesn't seem like it's based on anything. It's sound and fury, signifying nothing. As for what I think, I'm a plague on both your houses person, as it shouldn't be beyond people's wit to resolve these issues within the bookfair space without resorting to the sort of immature shite we saw on the day and have seen since. If people have a right to distribute leaflets, they have a right to be challenged for it, but I would have hoped that would be in a comradely manner. Shouting ugly terf cunt etc isn't really making a persuasive political case. And having such a go at the bookfair organisers that they've stepped back was imo disgraceful. Almost all the subsequent open letters and statements and counterstatements have been pisspoor and better not issued. Not to mention the burning of the bookfair banner. Far from edifying, the entire thing.
     
  27. imposs1904

    imposs1904 Thread Killa'

    The SPGB has never been allowed to have a stall at the Bookfair. I'm not sure what that reference is about.
     
  28. FabricLiveBaby!

    FabricLiveBaby! Indicative

    I've been quietly reading this thread. So I hope you don't mind me interjecting but Helen Steel is here giving a talk about her experience at the bookfair with other "no plarformed" women.

     
  29. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    TERFs basically ignore the existence of trans men, because it ruins the theory of trans people generally being a product of misogyny. More broadly I don’t think they are considered a threat to trad gender roles so much so there is a general level of deliberate denial. I have seen some recent commentary about cis women objectifying them recently though.

    Trans men get a very bad deal IMO.
     
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  30. purenarcotic

    purenarcotic Conveniently Pocket Sized

    TERFS don’t ignore trans men at all, they say it’s lesbians who are being transed due to homophobia / women hating their bodies so much due to misogyny that being a man is more desirable.
     

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