[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Kate Sharpley, May 30, 2017.

London Anarchist Bookfair
Start Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 10:00 AM
End Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 07:00 PM
Time Zone: Europe/London +01:00 BST

Park View School
West Green Road,
London N15 3QR

Posted By: Kate Sharpley

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  1. lazythursday

    lazythursday Well-Known Member

    I suppose, what mostly angers me about this 'debate' is that TERF ideology has given people who really should know better permission to be bigoted and prejudiced, sometimes overtly and other times through simply 'othering' transpeople in their language and failure to understand their experience. Some real life examples - recently I watched a local prominent green campaigner screw her face up in disgust after having a conversation with a transwoman - later I overheard her quoting bits and pieces of TERF-like views on gender to someone. In my local gay-ish bar, I heard a group of lesbians loudly complaining about the presence of transpeople 'in our space' - this is a bar mostly full of straight people, albeit lesbian owned and associated with lesbians. It's horrible. And then people wonder why trans-activists get angry and won't have a calm rational debate.
  2. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Yeah, that was one of my thoughts too. Some of the people I know going on about this have nothing to do with anarchist politics and never have, and are now using this as a stick to beat the Bookfair and anarchists in general.
  3. chilango

    chilango *shrugs*

    I'd be interested as to how many of those involved in the wider twitter based/IDpol culture (a crude lumping together, but I can't be more precise right now) identify as anarachists - and why.

    I'd also be interested in seeing what the @ orgs general positions are on this.

    'cos I'm not seeing much common ground between this soi dissant (thanks again Laurie) anarchism, and mine.

    Maybe I need to rethink my own political identity frankly.
  4. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    disant. one s. doesn't rhyme with pissant.
    campanula likes this.
  5. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Yeah totally, and I think everyone needs to be really careful and self reflective about why they hold the positions they do in this, as of course some of even the less extreme views might (will?) have a element of prejudice in them, and I think that's especially true on the anti-trans side (for want of a better term).
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  6. chilango

    chilango *shrugs*

    Blame Laurie.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  7. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    i do blame her, for leading you astray among other things.
    chilango likes this.
  8. 19force8

    19force8 For the avoidance of faith

    Or as they'd say in Quebec:

    Il est pissant, ce gars-là!
    Pickman's model likes this.
  9. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    oui, bien sûr
    19force8 likes this.
  10. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    But, again, that's conflating two very different things: abuse and legitimate debate. With a bit of good will and some self-reflection, that could be worked around.

    What's more difficult, is the point at which they meet/overlap. Whether e.g. it's transphobic to query whether a trans woman is a woman, and, if it is, could that, nevertheless, be justified by the importance of doing so to tackle misogyny?
  11. krink

    krink I'll do it this afternoon

    I've only seen three that I'd heard of, freedom books, afed and class war. all supporting trans anti-terf people and against bookfair bods.
  12. krink

    krink I'll do it this afternoon

    i thinks butchers or someone said (possibly joking) it's going to be like the mid 80s split and i think it might just be!
    Red Sky likes this.
  13. rich!

    rich! stalin tache

    Just checking - was this my post citing the registered holder of the web domain?
    Pickman's model likes this.
  14. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Statement from Helen Steel.

  15. chilango

    chilango *shrugs*

    What mid-80s split was butchersapron referring to?
    Pickman's model likes this.
  16. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    THE mid-80s split :hmm:
    TopCat likes this.
  17. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Fucking great statement. :)
  18. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    "refusing to validate other people's belief systems is not the same as threatening to harm them" is spot on.
    A lot of people would argue (very angrily) against the idea that its a belief system that's being discussed here though.
    shygirl likes this.
  19. krink

    krink I'll do it this afternoon

    might be another of my frequent senior moments, hang on...
    Pickman's model likes this.
  20. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    I'm assuming he means the post-miner's strike 'lifestyle/class' split?
    krink likes this.
  21. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    The Clash?
  22. krink

    krink I'll do it this afternoon

    page nine, around posts 250-ish. i took it as meaning it's like the time mid 80s, things like the DAM and their involvement with the miners strike was a big topic as opposed to the hippy bollocks that was very popular. i might be talking shite, carry on :D
    LiamO and sealion like this.
  23. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    This period was my heyday, hayday hade(?)
    Anyway was there a movement split? There was us (Class War) and Red Action and there was a bunch of ineffectual wankers. We did stuff. The rest postured a lot. Now CW postures along with the rest and RA are no more.
    MrSpikey, LiamO and shygirl like this.
  24. Rob Ray

    Rob Ray Irony is well sad

    Well, that and the way she seems to portray it as entirely the fault of a "baying mob" (nice language, speaking of dehumanising word use) of trans people and pretty much absolves the leafletters of any responsibility for deliberately going to an event where they knew there'd be a large and militant trans presence to hand out texts which were, charitably, highly inflammatory.

    Like if you want to call for dialogue fair play, but maybe don't do that and in the same breath insult people and deny that them being pissed off has any validity.
    lazythursday likes this.
  25. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Rob Ray she's obviously chosen a 'side' in this mess and is being quite open about that. Your post seems to suggest she should be neutral somehow which seems a bit odd given that she's made her views fairly clear.
    MadeInBedlam and sealion like this.
  26. killer b

    killer b No Hateration, No Holeration. in this Dancery

    She spent a couple of hours backed up against a wall with people screaming abuse at her last weekend, and a week of fallout since. It's admirable she's managed to keep such a lid on it tbh.
  27. sunnysidedown

    sunnysidedown Well-Known Member

    I've no idea how those currently inhabiting the banner burning/no platform edge of the trans community see their position developing once/if it moves from what I suppose is a politically small, London based milieu, and into the wider social sphere? but they may find they need to change the term TERFs to TEFs (that's F for female, and not necessarily a politically feminist one at that).
    shygirl and Magnus McGinty like this.
  28. Rob Ray

    Rob Ray Irony is well sad

    I'm not sure how you got that particular "seems" bimble, because nowhere did I suggest that she was or needed to be neutral.
  29. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    Or maybe the term 'gender critical' will gain traction soon, instead of the whole thing being about exclusion from some club named Women.

    The Trans Women Who Say That Trans Women Aren’t Women

    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  30. crossthebreeze

    crossthebreeze Well-Known Member

    I have not finished the article, so have nothing sensible to add, but one of the trans women interviewed is called Helen Highwater which is an ace name.

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