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[Sat 28th Oct 2017] London Anarchist Bookfair (London)

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Kate Sharpley, May 30, 2017.

London Anarchist Bookfair
Start Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 10:00 AM
End Date: Sat 28th Oct 2017 07:00 PM
Time Zone: Europe/London +01:00 BST

Location:
Park View School
West Green Road,
London N15 3QR

Posted By: Kate Sharpley

Confirmed Attendees: 0
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  1. krink

    krink I'll do it this afternoon

    class war (at least on twitter) are another anarchist group who have taken a side in this

    they're with the anti-terf peeps
     
  2. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Lordy, aside from the serious daftness, choosing L7 for the music in 2017...
     
  3. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Unsurprising given one of the people allegedly involved in the Hyde Park incident is also allegedly a member/involved with CW.
     
  4. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper It's a complicated world innit.

    For the full satirical double take it really should have been

     
    MadeInBedlam and Pickman's model like this.
  5. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    If I was them I'd have put music by one of the numerous excellent trans artists on the soundtrack.

    Amateurs.
     
  6. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Anohni - Hopelessness
     
  7. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper It's a complicated world innit.

    Where the fuck is any level of humility, solidarity, and understanding from some of these trans-activists?

    Do they realize that these spaces have been carved out by women over thousands of years of struggling against patriarchy? They've been hard fought for, resisted every step of the way by men, and are build on the bones of murdered, raped, enslaved and tortured women throughout countless generations.

    Is it so completely incomprehensible and impossible to engage constructively with the fact that some women might at the very least be wary and wanting some discussion about giving them up entirely at the recent demands of a small number of male-to-female trans activists?
     
  8. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    We're dealing with zealots, seemingly incapable of empathising with vast swathes of a community to which they aspire to belong (women). So the chances of them behaving that way to event organisers are pretty much negligible! We need to resist them, instead.
     
    LynnDoyleCooper and shygirl like this.
  9. lazythursday

    lazythursday Well-Known Member

    Burning of the bookfair banner may seem extreme, and juvenile... but if, say, this had been homophobic leafletting with prominent activists defending free speech, I'd probably happily lend my lighter to start burning things. I think many people fail to begin to comprehend the deep sense of hurt that this kind of aggressive leaflet engenders. To some extent I understand the political / ideological TERF view - but there are real, hurting oppressed people who are/see themselves as the victims of those views and they are going to respond to that and not always in the most sensible of ways.

    Six months ago I was probably at least sympathetic to the TERF viewpoint and but as time marches on it seems clearer and clearer that on one side is a rigid theoretical view (often presented by people comfortably ensconced in academia) brandishing all sorts of theoretical possibilities of future harm to women and on the other are people who face some of the worst discrimination and prejudice going.
     
  10. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    It's almost as if these people who have been socialised as men expect their demands to trump women's interests.
     
  11. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    That's no more an accurate characterisation than someone suggesting all those on the other side support violence towards women. The reality is that many ordinary women question what's being increasingly forced upon them (even if they're often too scared to do so openly).
     
    shygirl likes this.
  12. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper It's a complicated world innit.

    Indeed. One of the most unpleasant moments on Saturday was seeing a young trans-women aggressively screaming "ugly TERF cunt" in the face of a much older and smaller cis-woman. Not very thinly veiled misogyny. And they wonder why some people might be concerned/scared about giving up cis-women only spaces?!
     
    campanula and shygirl like this.
  13. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    yeh. i've posted earlier about people reaching for insults based around youth. how does that make young people think we view them, when we associate acts we dislike with people younger than us?
     
    sealion likes this.
  14. lazythursday

    lazythursday Well-Known Member

    Don't you realise how calling for transpeople to show humility and not be demanding is so very reminiscent of how white people complained of 'uppity blacks' or the way groups like Outrage! were presented as shrill extremists? Look - I'm absolutely not saying there isn't bad behaviour on both sides of this debate but perhaps I find it much easier to put myself in the shoes of the trans activists, remembering how people responded to gay rights protests in the 80s.
     
  15. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    i'm not calling for transpeople to show humility
     
    TopCat likes this.
  16. lazythursday

    lazythursday Well-Known Member

    Sorry Pickmans - I was referring to Lynne / Athos.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  17. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    That statement was put out before the stolen banner vid was posted. I doubt there is 100% support subsequently.
     
  18. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    I dont think either of those posters did either? Or were you politically paraphrasinģ?
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  19. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    I've not asked for trans people to show humility; I've asked for a tiny minority of Trans Rights Activists to stop physically assaulting women for daring to consider the question of 'what is a woman'.
     
    sealion, Plumdaff, shygirl and 6 others like this.
  20. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    thank you for the clarification
     
  21. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper It's a complicated world innit.

    Yeah but the thing is it's not as simple as an oppressed group of people demanding equal rights and freedoms in society as it was with the examples that people give re: black/POC and gay rights struggles.

    It's a group of people demanding access to an oppressed group's (cis-women's) spaces and hard fought autonomy. Some understanding by trans-activists that this is controversial and should be at least open to discussion is the least I think that should be expected.

    Maybe humility is a bad choice of word, but can you see how people are feeling attacked by this, especially in the context of a wider anti-feminist and growing men's rights/alt-right backlash? And I'm excluding the worst of the radfems, but plenty of left-wing feminist and anarchist cis-women want this debate to happen, and you have trans-women saying no, to even discuss it is transphobic.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    tbh some understanding by 'terfs' that this is controversial and should be open to discussion should also be expected.
     
  23. lazythursday

    lazythursday Well-Known Member

    If I was a transperson I don't think I'd see it as 'demanding access' though. I think I'd absolutely see it as part of my fight for equal rights. But yes, I get what you're saying, but I can't see how that leaflet is a particularly helpful contribution to such a debate.
     
  24. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    I personally have never found the rad fem viewpoint helpful. Spent my life being cunted off by them in fact.
    Never lamped anyone at the bookfair for selling SCUM though.
     
  25. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    always next year mind.
     
  26. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper It's a complicated world innit.

    Yeah, and I largely agree, I think putting up leaflets about trans stuff in the toilets is for many reasons a very provocative and not very useful thing to do. But it's tricky, if they'd been a meeting requested to discuss this can you imagine how that might have gone? How does this stuff get discussed?
     
  27. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    I’d love to know how many of the players using the book fair as a platform for their beefs are actually anarchists. Because being a trans activist or feminist doesn’t automatically make you one.
     
    Celyn, MrSpikey, planetgeli and 3 others like this.
  28. chilango

    chilango By the many, not the few.

    L7 was the best bit.
     
  29. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    [​IMG]
     
    sealion, Red Sky and LynnDoyleCooper like this.
  30. TopCat

    TopCat Gone away, no forwarding address

    It gets discussed but in the teeth of opposition from people who see discussion as the same as violence
     

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