glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
It might not be as simple as that but there is a direct link between inequality and crime in pretty much every study ever done.
Same Streets,Different Worlds!
- Thread starter tbaldwin
- Start date
JHE
.
Giles said:
Of course, it's not enough. It's nothing like enough, but it is part of the picture.
Other parts include:
- The decline of ordinary, reasonably secure employment with a tolerable income
- The celebration of 'gangsta' kulcha, pushed by MTV among others, bringing with it contempt for ordinary decent people, doing ordinary decent jobs
- The knowledge that others have got rich and gained 'respek' through crime
- The knowledge that crims generally get away with most of their criminality
- Educational failure - and, in some cases, stupidity and/or specific learning difficulties
- Extreme youthful recklessness
- Drug abuse and addiction
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
they are causing the frustration from seeing property prices escalated way beyond you being able to afford to buy, and from seeing thelocal community dumped by the council in favour of outsiderssayjann3 said:
Dave Mullen
Bolt Ya Radge!
I think a lot of these problems can be attributed to "right to buy" legislation which has seen property prices over inflated pricing people on more modest salaries out of a home. Furthermore the government's proposed aim of privatising existing housing stock and increasing is going to make the divide a lot worse.
I know these aren't the only factors but a divide in wealth and the selling off of youth activities which are funded by local authorities in favour of the privatised leisure industry are going to increase the feelings of alienation and hopelessness of a lot of people of modest means.
I know these aren't the only factors but a divide in wealth and the selling off of youth activities which are funded by local authorities in favour of the privatised leisure industry are going to increase the feelings of alienation and hopelessness of a lot of people of modest means.
durruti02 said:
Believe it or not a lot of youth arent particularly interested in youth clubs.
As a councillor I have to represent all residents including those born overseas. But obviously the needs of the poorer residents wherever they were born are greater than those of the wealthier. So thats where my priorities are.
As for what jobs replaced manufacturing at a guess I would say jobs in hospitals, the council, the catering trade, transport and supermarkets and of course the self employed. Not a substitute for manufacturing jobs in large companies I agree but its the reality of whats happened all over the country and not just Hackney.
BarryB
Dave Mullen said:
How has "right to buy" INCREASED property prices in general? Surely if this had not happened the house price boom would have happened just the same. Only difference is that those who bought places cheap off the council wouldn't have been able to benefit.
Giles..
trashpony
Hag
I got broken into 5 times in 5 years when I lived on one of the roughest estates in Camberwell. Since I left and moved into regular house it hasn't happened once.
I didn't have any more than anyone else. People shit on their own doorsteps - this has fuck all with seeing white middle class people living in nice houses. It's a different fucking world.
I didn't have any more than anyone else. People shit on their own doorsteps - this has fuck all with seeing white middle class people living in nice houses. It's a different fucking world.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Yossarian said:
Yup, balders is so soapy he answered the same point twice, two days apart, with two completely different but similarly irrelevant points.
Stunning, isn't it?
As a teenager who has spelt almost his whole life living on a council estate in Brixton (and the rest on a council estate in Brixton Hill/Streatham), I've found that the proportion of middle-class residents in the area does not play much of a role at all.
I'd say that the main factor is the glamourisation of the 'gangsta' culture. I'm not just talking about song lyrics or a particular movie/video game, but the whole package, the lifestyle that is being sold to us by the media - sometimes even the very media that then objects to the gun/gang culture when something like the recent spate of gun killings happen. We are constantly being told that this lifestyle is cool - and suddenly all the kids aspire to it. I, personally, dislike the music channel on Sky called Channel U - it is very inconsistent in the content of its music videos. You can watch one video where the artist is singing/rapping about putting an end to gun crime, followed by a video featuring a group of kids in New Era caps rapping about owning guns. The vast majority of the videos are British and amateur, making it more "real" (and therefore cooler) than the strictly censored US-made videos.
And that, contrary to popular belief, included some of the middle class white kids - who just tried to deny their upbringing anyway! I remember the fuss that was caused when one of the "baddest" kids in the school's parents turned up one parent's evening, and were about as white middle-class as one could be!
I think the second strongest cause of the increase in youth gang culture is the denial/fear on the parent's behalf. A child will begin to talk differently, dress differently, show an lack of respect when speaking to authority figures, and misbehave in/not go to school - but quite often the parents will refuse to believe that their child is mixing with the wrong crowd, that he could be involved in gangs and drugs. Then, when and if they do realise, the kid has become so agressive and dominant over them, they are too scared to do anything about it.
Finally, the third problem, imo, is school system. There is a definite polarisation in terms of secondary schools. There are "good schools", which have particular entrance requirements, and then there are other schools which children get sent to if they don't meet those requirements. Sadly, there is often a high proportion of black students in these schools. The "good schools" attract better teaching staff due to the higher pay and generally good reputation. The rest of the teachers, much like the students, are then left to work in the "other schools". It becomes a kind of loop - the school has a reputation for troublesome behaviour, and so the teachers with more job offers choose not to work there.
and you hit the nail on the head, BarryB. There's a youth club just outside my house, and when it's over, the kids just hang outside and cause trouble by trying to mug people, and acting violently with eachother. But yet whenever problems concerning today's working class black youth are addressed, the immediate government response is always "we need to set up more youth clubs".
http://gunlondon.blogspot.com
I'd say that the main factor is the glamourisation of the 'gangsta' culture. I'm not just talking about song lyrics or a particular movie/video game, but the whole package, the lifestyle that is being sold to us by the media - sometimes even the very media that then objects to the gun/gang culture when something like the recent spate of gun killings happen. We are constantly being told that this lifestyle is cool - and suddenly all the kids aspire to it. I, personally, dislike the music channel on Sky called Channel U - it is very inconsistent in the content of its music videos. You can watch one video where the artist is singing/rapping about putting an end to gun crime, followed by a video featuring a group of kids in New Era caps rapping about owning guns. The vast majority of the videos are British and amateur, making it more "real" (and therefore cooler) than the strictly censored US-made videos.
And that, contrary to popular belief, included some of the middle class white kids - who just tried to deny their upbringing anyway! I remember the fuss that was caused when one of the "baddest" kids in the school's parents turned up one parent's evening, and were about as white middle-class as one could be!
I think the second strongest cause of the increase in youth gang culture is the denial/fear on the parent's behalf. A child will begin to talk differently, dress differently, show an lack of respect when speaking to authority figures, and misbehave in/not go to school - but quite often the parents will refuse to believe that their child is mixing with the wrong crowd, that he could be involved in gangs and drugs. Then, when and if they do realise, the kid has become so agressive and dominant over them, they are too scared to do anything about it.
Finally, the third problem, imo, is school system. There is a definite polarisation in terms of secondary schools. There are "good schools", which have particular entrance requirements, and then there are other schools which children get sent to if they don't meet those requirements. Sadly, there is often a high proportion of black students in these schools. The "good schools" attract better teaching staff due to the higher pay and generally good reputation. The rest of the teachers, much like the students, are then left to work in the "other schools". It becomes a kind of loop - the school has a reputation for troublesome behaviour, and so the teachers with more job offers choose not to work there.
BarryB said:
and you hit the nail on the head, BarryB. There's a youth club just outside my house, and when it's over, the kids just hang outside and cause trouble by trying to mug people, and acting violently with eachother. But yet whenever problems concerning today's working class black youth are addressed, the immediate government response is always "we need to set up more youth clubs".
http://gunlondon.blogspot.com
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
tbaldwin said:
I haven't made up anything, dimbulb, I stated a fact. You know what a fact is, don't you? In this case the fact was that you'd posted two replies, two days aprt, to the same point by Yossarian, and both times your reply had fuck all to do with Yoss's point.
Nice one Balders, showing yourself up as a stupid cunt yet again
And great move, inventing some more shit around the fact that *gasp* I worked at the Home Office at the time Michael Howard was home secretary. I mean, wow, that obviously means that I licked his arse, doesn't it? In fact I'm sure next thing you'll invent some shit about how all Home Office staff had to kiss his bare arse every morning as part of a Satanic Home Office ritual.
You fucking plum.
Nah - thats bollocks ...Crispy said:
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
detective-boy said:
No, bollocks is definitely MOD.
ViolentPanda said:
Yeah. Its something that somebody believes in.
I believe that your politics are weak, right wing and conservative with a small c. That when it comes to the crunch you are just as likely to side with the forces of reaction and/or status quo.
That your stated opinions,show you to be somebody who wants to believe in certainties in facts and stats. That you know your a bit guillible but resist the temptation to open your mind to the possibility that the real facts that matter are not to be found in books or in google but in everyday life.
So as i believe all this....Its my truth.....Yours is tbaldwin is a cunt....
Maybe we're both right?
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
I am white and middle class, I don't want to be any trouble so I think it's best I move to Surbiton and tend to my roses.
Sorry about all that, I didn't mean for those people to get all shot and wotnot.
Sorry about all that, I didn't mean for those people to get all shot and wotnot.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
tbaldwin said:
haha.
You haven't got a clue, and as usual you hide your own inadequacy by projecting your faults onto others.
You're wrong in both cases, but there's nothing new to that, is there?
I don't believe you're a cunt. I believe you're close-minded and convinced of your own rightness even in the face of such trick things as facts. That doesn't make you a cunt, it just makes you wilfully ignorant.
As for you being right, I suppose there has to be a first time for everything, but it ain't now.
ViolentPanda said:
No. I think of facts and stats as questionable. Part of that is i see on a regular basis how so called facts and stats are used.
99.3% of them are bollocks.
That you choose to ignore that is up to you....I suppose it makes the world much easier to understand. I think your naturally conservative. This probably helped you in your job in the home office...Your contribution on the NHS thread where you called for independent internal examiners just about sums it up...
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
tbaldwin said:
Intresting stat.
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