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Salma Yaqoob on 'Any Questions?' Friday 14th December 8pm

nwnm said:
... RR to support Ken 'scab on the underground' Livingstone? ...
Obviously in good company ...


"Vote for me first and Ken second"
Lindsey German

germanlead_203x152.jpg


Interviewed by BBC 26 April 2007 after being selected as Respect candidate for Mayor in 2008
http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2007/04/26/respect_mayor_video_feature.shtml

Will it ever happen?



And of course there was last time round:

"There are lots of things that I agree with Ken Livingstone about. He was very good about opposing the war and the Bush visit.

He was criticised for that and also for his views on Palestine. He's somebody who strongly promotes anti-racism and equality.

...

One of the good things about these elections is that you can vote for me number one for mayor, and vote for Ken Livingstone number two.

We will say, "Vote for Respect in protest at Labour's policies," but you can still vote to transfer to Ken Livingstone.

Lindsey German, Socialist Worker, 1 May 2004
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=392
 
nwnm said:
you won't last long in RR if you keep taking those drugs now sunny....:D

And you old flower have died and withered in the early winter frost. The leadership of your party stands like a lanky scarecrow of a man with withered face and lantern jaws.
 
nwnm said:
no - but its useful for dealing with pillocks

Pillock is not a word that i would use to words any human being. I may have had to leave school when i was 15 to work on a Steel Works, you may call me a pillock if you like. However it seems in your case one cannot put a quart in a pint glass, thats transparent and irregular.
 
depends on whether george is talking about second preferencing Livingstone or just voting livingstone

You can't be serious. So you're saying it's ok to say vote for Livingstone as a second preference but not as a first, even though you think he's a scab?
 
Have Another Drink

nwnm said:
OK, cheers then:D

"War, hatred, and violence all spring from one infernal idea: that one person, race, creed, or culture is better than another".

Yes have another drink and another and another, for you will not be any more coherent than before your first.
 
cockneyrebel said:
You can't be serious. So you're saying it's ok to say vote for Livingstone as a second preference but not as a first, even though you think he's a scab?

Lesser evilism - personally I hope there is someone better to vote for...
 
sunshine1 said:
"War, hatred, and violence all spring from one infernal idea: that one person, race, creed, or culture is better than another".

Yes have another drink and another and another, for you will not be any more coherent than before your first.

thats still twice as coherent as you. You come out with some absolute piffle
 
Lesser evilism - personally I hope there is someone better to vote for...

What next then? Vote Democrats to keep out the Republicans? The Tories to keep out the BNP?

Has the SWP really gone over to the politics of lesser evilism?
 
nwnm said:
thats still twice as coherent as you. You come out with some absolute piffle

What this post and in fact most of your past posts on these here boards demonstrates, is the singular sectarian nature and characteristics by which some SWP members including its entire leadership are better known for. I will gladly piffle on you any day rather than piffle in the wind as you and your kind do.:mad:
 
sunshine1 said:
What this post and in fact most of your past posts on these here boards demonstrates, is the singular sectarian nature and characteristics by which some SWP members including its entire leadership are better known for. I will gladly piffle on you any day rather than piffle in the wind as you and your kind do.:mad:

As far as I'm concerned mate, you can piffle up your leg and play with the steam....:p
 
cockneyrebel said:
What next then? Vote Democrats to keep out the Republicans? The Tories to keep out the BNP?

Has the SWP really gone over to the politics of lesser evilism?


Answer that nwnm.
 
'Lesser evilism' is a silly term invented by the Social Workers in the course of criticising someone or other's supposedly wrong position. It's a daft term - but the dear old Social Workers do like adding 'ism' to some word or phrase and pretending to have found some new and erroneous doctrine.

We all choose lesser evils every fucking day - all of us, even Trots.

But if you choose to vote for the least of the available evils (a perfectly sensible thing to do, IMO), the Social Workers will either agree with you or disagree with you, depending on how their CC has decided they should vote. If the Social Workers are told to disagree with your choice, they will tell you your view is 'lesser evilism'. If they agree with you, they won't.
 
nwnm said:
of course this is what RESPECT should look like -

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=13827

This article is a classic case of the SWP not knowing their arse from their elbow.

Matthew Browne, who is seconding the motion, is a good trade union activist and Labour Councillor for Tulketh ward in Preston. He is fighting to defend his seat in the local elections next May, which he held by a majority of only 49 against a Tory for election last time round.

http://www.preston.gov.uk/elections/ElectionWard.asp?ward=44

Meanwhile there is to be a by-election in Tulketh ward, probably in January. According to Martin Smith, National Secretary of the SWP, in an article in the current issue of Socialist Review:

But for Respect to really provide a challenge to Labour it has to have electoral successes. We have to lay the groundwork now for the London and council elections in May. Our first challenge of 2008 will be a council by-election in Preston where our councillor, Michael Lavalette, and the Respect group have built a serious base. We are going to run a strong campaign in the ward, which has given Respect a good vote in the past, and we want to get activists straight out on the campaign trail.

http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/article.php?articlenumber=10186

Firstly, Respect has never stood in Tulketh ward for the city council itself so it has never "given Respect a good vote in the past". [see footnote] Smith is talking complete bollocks.

Secondly, Michael Lavalette has stated that under no circumstances would Respect ever contest an election against Matthew Browne (or his fellow councillor for the ward Robert Boswell - another Labour left winger and anti-academy activist).

So what is the purpose of Respect standing in a by-election? They tell voters the Labour Party are scabs and shits, and they should vote for Respect in the by-election.... then four months later they tell voters, even if Respect got a good vote in the by-election (which they won't), they will not be standing again, as this time they should support the Labour candidate, who is a good fighter for the working class.

Thirdly, this is the only ward the BNP have ever contested in Preston - in 2006 they got an astonishing 17.7% of the vote from nowhere. (It is a virtually entirely white ward). There is a small but nonetheless real danger that the BNP could build their vote in this seat and eventually replace the Tories as the main challenger to Labour (including two of the most left wing Labour councillors in the country).

Fourthly, the Labour candidate in this by-election is a former councillor who was one of the small minority of the Labour group who voted for two of Lavalette's previous motions in council - to twin with Palestine, which even then Labour Councillor for the ward Steven Brooks voted against, and to oppose the siting of nuclear missiles in Preston. He may not be 'on the left' in the way that Boswell and Browne are, but he certainly is not a rabid right-winger either.

Have the SWP asked Matthew Browne whether he thinks an SWP-Respect candidate in January will be a help or a hindrance to his campaign for re-election in May? Will they be publishing his reply in the pages of their journals?

[Footnote - Respect have contested Tulketh ward in local elections in a roundabout way; in May 2005 Steven Brooks, who was elected Labour councillor for Tulketh in May 2003 by 20 votes, stood for the Lancashire County Election on the same day as the general election as part of a campaign to maximise the vote for Michael Lavalette in the general election; the county division he stood for includes Tulketh ward and two other wards, St Georges where Respect has done well (25%) and University ward where it has done badly (5%); Brooks got 9% and came last despite being the sitting councillor for Tulketh ward).]
 
nwnm said:
of course this is what RESPECT should look like -

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=13827

The article is by "Preston Fighting Unions".

Do members of the SWP know that when Galloway wrote his original letter claiming that the Fighting Unions campaign lost Respect £5,000 he was telling the truth?

The reply from John Rees (Nat Sec) and Elaine Graham-Leigh (Treasurer) claimed that in fact it did not lose money, because of "other donations". The SWP then used that as a basis for whipping up support against Galloway for their petition.

Only recently did Galloway realise that the "other donations" talked about in Rees and Graham-Leigh's reply included a £5,000 donation from a construction company in Dubai originally made to Respect that Galloway refused to accept (it would have been illegal as Labour and now Tories have been exposed for) and recommended it be given to Stop the War Coalition, a campaign entirely independent of political parties.

Instead Rees secretly made the payment to "Organising for Fighting Unions" which conveniently owed £5,000 to Respect for the loss it made on its activities.

When Galloway discovered the duplicity, he reported it to the electoral commission as he would be the one exposed in the media for taking illegal donations.

The Dubai based company who made the £5.000 donation to "Organising for Fighting Unions" are owned by a british company whose head is a Tory peer and which tenders for privatisation contracts in the UK. Trade Unions are illegal in Dubai and there has recently been a bitter battle and strikes against construction employers.

Presumably it is "lesser evilism" to take money from such tainted sources for an SWP front?
 
Fisher_Gate said:
The article is by "Preston Fighting Unions".

Do members of the SWP know that when Galloway wrote his original letter claiming that the Fighting Unions campaign lost Respect £5,000 he was telling the truth?

The reply from John Rees (Nat Sec) and Elaine Graham-Leigh (Treasurer) claimed that in fact it did not lose money, because of "other donations". The SWP then used that as a basis for whipping up support against Galloway for their petition.

Only recently did Galloway realise that the "other donations" talked about in Rees and Graham-Leigh's reply included a £5,000 donation from a construction company in Dubai originally made to Respect that Galloway refused to accept (it would have been illegal as Labour and now Tories have been exposed for) and recommended it be given to Stop the War Coalition, a campaign entirely independent of political parties.

Instead Rees secretly made the payment to "Organising for Fighting Unions" which conveniently owed £5,000 to Respect for the loss it made on its activities.

When Galloway discovered the duplicity, he reported it to the electoral commission as he would be the one exposed in the media for taking illegal donations.

The Dubai based company who made the £5.000 donation to "Organising for Fighting Unions" are owned by a british company whose head is a Tory peer and which tenders for privatisation contracts in the UK. Trade Unions are illegal in Dubai and there has recently been a bitter battle and strikes against construction employers.

Presumably it is "lesser evilism" to take money from such tainted sources for an SWP front?


I wrote this before I had read this:
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=1343

which takes the story a stage further.
 
Fisher_Gate said:
I wrote this before I had read this:
http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=1343

which takes the story a stage further.

'Dubaigate' is truly an amazing development.

The SWP Central Committee have *** APOLOGISED *** to SWP members for not telling them they took money from an illegal foreign source to fund Respect. Although not quite ... they've told the SWP membership that the money is tainted with being linked to tory privatisers, not that it was probably illegal.

Four SWP Central Committee members discussed this donation in detail in a meeting with George Galloway on 4th September - Galloway argued that the fact that Rees had put the money into an account, the ultimate recipient of which was Respect, had put the organisation at risk of legal action.

The SWP CC then proceeded to tell the SWP membershp that Galloway witch-hunted them over some "obscure cheque"; they also denied the whole thing in the form of a statement from John Rees, co-signed by Elaine Graham-Leigh, issued and published to the SWP membership, through its submission by the Central Committee to the Pre Conference Discussion Bulletin number 1 in October (page 22 section 3 for those SWP members who want to check what was said for themselves).

Galloway explains:

"I did not include this issue in my letter to the Respect National Council in late August as I wanted to resolve matters concerning this donation as quickly as possible and without any possibility of it embarrassing either Respect or OFFU. It was however part of the my opening remarks at a meeting with SWP Central Committee members John Rees, Lindsey German, Chris Bambery and Alex Callinicos on 4 September. These remarks were made in the context of my accusation against John Rees of his lack of accountability and his recklessness on this and another matter. However, they were dismissed by John Rees as being a cover for a right wing attack on the left in Respect. At a meeting of 250 London SWP members later that week, Alex Callinicos referred to my having spent 25 minutes going on about an obscure cheque."

Come on nwnm, mutley et al - I bet you know people who were there - is it true what Callinicos is reported to have said at the SWP meeting?

The SWP CC cynically used the claim (now known to be accurate) by Galloway that OFFU had lost money and that this was due to incompetence, by denying it was true and whipping up the SWP membership into a belief there was a left/right witch-hunt.

Galloway continued to refer to the cheque in e-mails to the SWP during September, and eventuallyl decided to refer the matter to the Electoral Commission in order to protect his own position as Respect's sole MP.

In December, over three months after Galloway raised it and 10 months after the cheque arrived, the East London Advertiser picked up the story, including a quote from Rees defending the receipt of the money.

The SWP CC have now (and only now) cooked up a story to pretend that they have only just discovered (10 months after the cheque was received) that it might just be dodgy.

However they are claiming that it is because it might be considered anti-union. Andy Newman on the SU blog is probably right when he says that the SWP CC have probably taken legal advice about the donation, and have been advised that as a foreign donation it was illegal for Respect to have received this donation, and that John Rees and Elaine Graham-Leigh as the officers of Respect who handled the Dubai money (no-one else in Respect or OFFU knew where the money went) could be in deep trouble. Therefore they have used the link with tory privatisers to try to find a way out by giving the money back and the SWP paying over the same amount.

At least when the Labour Party was caught taking foreign donations the General Secretary had the guts to resign. No such principles from John Rees.

But the amazing thing is that at last the doctrine of CC infalibility is blown apart in the SWP. The four members of the SWP CC who met with Galloway in September are now shown to be liars and charlatans. How many other things in the split inside Respect have they misled the SWP membership about? If they could hide the Dubai cheque what else are they hiding? If they could be so stupid as to think that a foreign donation was going to be okay, after both the Labour Party and Tory Party have been caught out by it, how can anyone trust their political judgement about anything?

If the SWP membership do not take steps to remove the people responsible for this farago of lies and deceit at their conference in January, no SWP member will ever be able to hold their head up inside the Labour movement with any integrity again. Every right wing real witch-hunter in the labour movement will respond to every initiative raised by an SWP member saying "How do we know this isn't funded by capitalist companies with a link to Tory privatisers?".

So come on nwnm, mutley et al, let's hear what you think about this one?
 
Here's John Fees' letter to Michael Gavan -
12 December 2007
To Michael Gavan, secretary, Organising for Fighting Unions
Dear Michael,
We spoke recently about the article in the East London Advertiser
regarding George Galloway’s accusations about the source of the donation
made to OFFU by a Dubai businessman last June.
As you know the donation was originally sent to Respect last January but
was returned to the donor because it is illegal for a political party to accept
foreign donations. I did, however, in returning the donation suggest it
might instead be made to OFFU as a campaigning organisation which has
supporters from a number of different political parties within it and which
is separate from Respect.
At the time that the donation was eventually made to OFFU last June
neither I nor George Galloway knew of any link between the donor and a
company involved in PFI schemes in Britain. It remains the case that the
donation is an individual and not a corporate donation even though it is
drawn on a company account.
I do however regret not having researched the link, tenuous though it
is, between this individual, his company and the company to which it
is connected in Britain. I hope this oversight on my part has not caused
OFFU any embarrassment and I apologise if this is the case.
Yours fraternally,
John Rees,
Respect national secretary.

Here is the SWP CC statement -
"The Central Committee is very concerned to hear that a
donation to Organizing For Fighting Unions has links, even
if tenuous, to companies involved in privatization and PFI
schemes in the UK. Although the money was taken in good
faith, from an individual with a proven record of supporting
anti-war and pro-Palestinian causes, the coming to light of
these links with big business means that we believe it is
inappropriate that OFFU should have received these funds.
Should the OFFU officers decide to return the donation, we
will work with them to help raise the money."

It comes as no surprise that Galloway's post split lapdogs on here spend more time attempting to spread black propaganda about those who stayed in RESPECT, than they have promoting their own little grouping. That is because they have very little to promote. Whilst RESPECT is actively taking up issues such as gun crime in the communities effected, the other lot are scrabbling around in the gutter looking for muck to throw - ignorant of the fact that the longer they remain in the gutter; the more at home they will feel and the more marginal they will become.....
 
nwnm said:
...RESPECT is actively taking up issues such as gun crime in the communities effected [sic]...

Come on then, hack boy. Tell us what the line is from Social Workers' al-Respeq. I'm intrigued to know what measures you propose to combat gun crime.

I hope you are not going to disappoint by just gibbering about how you are against the (imaginary) 'demonisation of youth'.
 
For the sake of balance and to set the record straight, nwnm :rolleyes: here is Galloway's letter to Michael Gavan:

18 December 2007

Dear Michael,

I have been sent a copy of a letter to you from John Rees, distributed by email to SWP members, along with an apology from the SWP Central Committee concerning the donation to OFFU of £5,000 from Dubai.

I think it would be appropriate for me to give you my side of this unfortunate story as John Rees’s letter is misleading. When a cheque arrived in January at the Respect Office made out to Respect from a person I did not know but who was clearly a foreign national who said he admired and supported me, I took the position obvious to everyone involved in these things, except perhaps the Labour Party’s former General Secretary, that we were grateful for the offer but we had to refuse it on legal grounds.

When John Rees suggested an alternative organisation for the money to be donated to, my assistant Kevin Ovenden had a discussion with him and with Elaine Graham-Leigh saying this might be potentially difficult with the Electoral Commission but that, if such a proposal were to be made, an obvious organisation to suggest was the Stop the War Coalition. This organisation had no formal links with Respect, pre-existed Respect and was an organisation, given the likely nature of the support of the individual concerned, which he might be happy to donate to. The Stop the War Coalition also has robust structures and would have been able to come to a collective decision over whether it might accept such a donation. Kevin, on my behalf, categorically argued against the suggestion by John Rees and Elaine Graham-Leigh that the cheque be reissued payable to OFFU.

There was no further communication between me or my staff and John Rees about this matter until the end of August. In particular, I and my office were unaware that John Rees had written back soliciting the donation for OFFU. He did not circulate that letter to me, to the officers of Respect, or, it seems, to the OFFU committee.

It is utterly disingenuous therefore to say that neither I nor John Rees knew of the company connections of the individual concerned when the donation was made to OFFU in June. I did not know the donation had been made to OFFU. It also seems to be the case that the committee and officers of OFFU were not told that a £5,000 donation from Dubai had been accepted in their name. A Google search after I did learn of the donation, in late August, established the unfortunate links which have caused so much embarrassment.

I did not include this issue in my letter to the Respect National Council in late August as I wanted to resolve matters concerning this donation as quickly as possible and without any possibility of it embarrassing either Respect or OFFU. It was however part of the my opening remarks at a meeting with SWP Central Committee members John Rees, Lindsey German, Chris Bambery and Alex Callinicos on 4 September. These remarks were made in the context of my accusation against John Rees of his lack of accountability and his recklessness on this and another matter. However, they were dismissed by John Rees as being a cover for a right wing attack on the left in Respect. At a meeting of 250 London SWP members later that week, Alex Callinicos referred to my having spent 25 minutes going on about an obscure cheque.

Despite this, I continued to deal with John Rees and Elaine Graham-Leigh on a confidential basis with regard to this cheque. I insisted on referring the matter to the Electoral Commission on the grounds that the donation might still have been illegal and, in any case, to demonstrate that we were complying with our obligations of transparency. However, my best efforts met with resistance and obfuscation all the way down the line by both Rees and Graham-Leigh.

I raised the connection between the Dubai donation and the Interserve privateers in an email to John Rees, Elaine Graham-Leigh, Alex Callinicos, Lindsey German and Chris Bambery three months ago – on 10 September.

John Rees breezily dismissed these concerns in an emailed response on 13 September. He wrote:

“…this was an individual donation not a corporate donatation (sic). Many people work for firms that do bad things~but accepting money from them as individuals does not imply either that they endorse the actions of their employers or that we endorse the actions of the firms. Consequently, the whole ‘anything in the world can be connected by six degrees of separation’ argument falls at the first hurdle.

“More broadly, why should any labour movement body not accept a bit of the profit coming back to the workers so long as there are no strings attached.”

I continued to press John Rees and Elaine Graham-Leigh to refer this to the Electoral Commission until finally I felt obliged, not least for my own reputation, having been the victim of a genuine witch-hunt over donations from the Middle East to the Mariam Appeal, to refer the matter myself. The Electoral Commission are currently looking into the matter.

Given how widely the SWP leadership raised this issue in their own organisation, it was only going to be a matter of time before the issue got into the press, and so it has proved. I am sorry that it has taken press exposure to bring the necessary action to bear on this issue, although I note that John Rees’s letter does not actually suggest the return of the donation, which is the recommendation of the SWP Central Committee.

It would certainly be my view that the cheque should never have been solicited for OFFU for two reasons. Firstly, OFFU was set up as a result of a decision by the Respect Officers’ Committee, its National Council and resolution of the Respect Annual Conference. Its leading officers were members of Respect and one of the signatories to the bank account was an employee of Respect. Respect employees were engaged more or less full time in arranging OFFU’s only conference thus far, a conference which lost £5,000. These are connections to Respect which made the donation to OFFU potentially illegal and certainly potentially politically embarrassing. The second reason is, of course, the fact that the major shareholder in the Dubai company is leading PFI privateer Interserve – a connection which is far from “tenuous”. The Stop the War Coalition might have felt able to accept that money – I cannot see how a body of trade union militants would.

I am very sorry that this embarrassment has occurred for all who are involved in OFFU in good faith, but it entirely vindicates my criticisms of the way in which John Rees has operated both with respect to Respect and OFFU.

On another matter you continue to have my utmost support and good wishes against your victimisation by Newham Council and I remain at your disposal to help in any way I can.

With best wishes,

George Galloway MP
 
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