Saddam sentenced to death by hanging

[snorbury]

it would shorten the war by a year

 

[Aldebaran]

it would shorten the war by a year

You must be born a dreamer.

salaam.

 

[snorbury]

You must be born a dreamer.

salaam.

no i was thinking of this

Winston Churchill's Secret Poison Gas Memo

 

[Aldebaran]

I don't see what Churchill discussing the use of poisoned gas has to do with a non-trial in Iraq.

What *has* to do with it is the so very clearly US imposed article 48 in the "provisional constitution" (on its own already an illegally drafted document since heavily influenced by occupying forces in a state under foreign occupation), defining the establishment of a Special Tribunal" which is as such already a contradiction of article 15 of the same draft "provisional constitution".

Then we only talk about the beginning of the joke.


salaam.

 

[kropotkin]

Who gives a shit? Saddam is going to get hanged, which is as he was a ruling class cunt.

 

[TomUS]

If Saddam gets the rope for killing only 148 people, what should George/Tony get for killing many thousands?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

He's not in any meaningful sense getting killed for his crimes, he's getting killed to shut him up and to provide the Republicans with an election boost.

 

[magneze]

He's not in any meaningful sense getting killed for his crimes, he's getting killed to shut him up and to provide the Republicans with an election boost.

The timing stinks for sure. Fucking disgraceful.

 

[Nemo]

If Saddam gets the rope for killing only 148 people, what should George/Tony get for killing many thousands?

Only 148? What is this? Some kind of competition?

 

[Luther Blissett]

He's not in any meaningful sense getting killed for his crimes, he's getting killed to shut him up and to provide the Republicans with an election boost.

Let's write a potted history. I'll start....

The US/CIA helped the Ba'athists to power twice during the 60s - 1963 for the overthrow of Kaseem, and 1968 during the communist witch-hunts there.

In 1973, whilst Israel was at war with all it's neighbours, the Ba'athist regime, who's main armourer was then Russia, sent the Iraqi army to crush the Kurdish guerillas (KDP-Kurdish Democratic Party) in the North who had been armed and trained by the puppet-Shah of Iran and the US/CIA.

1975 - Iraq and Iran came to an agreement about disputed access in the Gulf. US/CIA cut off aid to KDP who were brutally crushed by the Iraqi Army, strafing them using Russian MIG jets. In that same year, the US government allowed the Pfaulder corporation to supply Iraq with blueprints for a chemical warfare plant.

Throughout the 'Cold War', both Russia and US courted Iraq, with neither showing any concern about the lack of democracy there. Saddam assumed leadership of Iraq in 1979, and in that same year, the Iranian Revolution toppled the US-puppet Shah, depriving US of a key ally in the Middle East.

US became frightened that the Revolution would spread, and turned back to Iraq as an ally in the region. US-backing encouraged Saddam Hussein to use chemical warfare in 1988 against Kurdish civilians, and gave military aid to Iraq in it's fight against Iran. US warships escorted Iraqi oil tankers and assisted Iraq in it's attacks on Iranian rigs.

1989 - the Iraq-Iran war ended, with no winners. Iraq was in debt to the US for all the military equipment it had supplied them with to fight their war against Iran. Then Saddham fell out with Kuwait, and believing he had US blessing for the invasion, went ahead, but the US feared Iraq would gain control of oil production and turned against him.

It was only after this, that US and British media conveniently discovered the massacres of the Kurds and Iraqi oppositionists. The US and its NATO allies, with UN backing, launched war against Iraq in 1991. They slaughtered Iraqi conscripts and civilians and then betrayed the Kurds whom they claimed they were liberating.

11 years of crippling sanctions followed, with regular bombing raids spreading toxic Depleted Uranium dust over southern Iraq. The regime was undamaged by this, and civilian Iraqis suffered most casualties.

After 9/11 2001, the build up to full scale war began - something which had been on the cards since Jan 2001. The US already knew they could not win a 'normal' troop war against Iraq. Every traditional military simulation they had tried failed, and they could only continue in their plan if they pretended their own defeats had not happened. A link was made between 9/11 and Saddham Hussein by the Bush administration in the mind of US citizens. Several unsuccessful attempts to link Iraq to 9/11 were refuted time after time, but this didn't stop Cheney-Bush-Rumsfeld from making them. In early December, while the USA were dropping yellow cluster bombs and yellow aid parcels on Afghanistan, several infamous British MPs questioned US committments to peacekeeping in Afghanistan, and something went very awry in the UK Government as Bush courted the Tory Iain Duncan Smith, giving him a longer audience than Blair. At that time, Mr Blair and a large number of MPs were opposed to any prospect of widening the military campaign against terrorism to include Iraq. By mid December, even with the Iraq connection to anthrax and 9/11 links ruled out, Cheney-Bush-Rumsfeld had declared fully their intent to take the war on terror into Iraq, with or without UK assistance.

Writing this is giving me a bad headache - would anyone care to take over? I haven't even got resurfacing of Ahmed Chalabi, the start of the 'Shock and Awe' war or the 'Salvador/civil war option' yet.

 

[muser]

I'm not the only one suspicious of the timing, the US mid-term elections mere hours away...

Thought the same thing.

 

[muser]

jusr a quick one. i think that that trial is a total sham. how can they even uphold the sentance?

to support it would be a crime against the man regardless of what he was supposed to have done

the whole thing has been setup by bush and blair who have acted liek total wankers in all of this.

lied about wmd's just to attack the guys SOVRIEGN country and then did this to him. its almost like a personal vendetta for bush following in daddies footsteps.

what has the attack on iraq achieved? civil war thousands of innocent civilians dead and our own soldiers being sent home dead constantly.

really sorry but i thinks its disgusting, a shambles and a crime that he has been sentanced to death using laws which were made AFTER the poor bastards country was invaded.

i am not a supporter nor am i a muslim and i do not believe in any god or religion but i know injustice when i see it and those that have helped to convict saddam in that kangaroo court should be ashamed of themselves.

useless court
unfair trial
bastards.

Exactly

 

[Luther Blissett]

Thought the same thing.

Surely most everyone did?

Bush wants Saddam to hang, but we must resist

The US president is reflecting his own brutish view of the world

Max Hastings
Saturday December 20, 2003

It has always seemed mistaken to perceive Iraq as the epicentre of the "Iraq crisis". Events there represent only one manifestation of a much more profound issue: how the rest of the world should manage its relationship with the United States. This will be our great foreign policy dilemma for at least the first half of the 21st century.

America's wealth and power are inescapable realities. It seems self-indulgent to lavish emotional and intellectual energy on deploring the shortcomings of the world's only superpower. From Tony Blair downwards, all of us must focus on coming to terms with the US, rather than figuratively waving placards to demand that this great nation should be something other than it is.

Yet, it is hard not to hate George Bush. His ignorance and conceit, his professed special relationship with God, invite revulsion. A few weeks ago, I heard a British diplomat observe sagely: "We must not demonise Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz." Why not? The US defence secretary and his assistant have implemented coalition policy in Iraq in a fashion that makes Soviet behaviour in Afghanistan in the 1970s appear dextrous. The British are hapless passengers on the Pentagon's juggernaut.

The president's personal odyssey touched a new low this week, when he asserted publicly that Saddam Hussein should die. After a fair trial, he says, Iraq's former dictator should swing or be shot, though Washington thinks it expedient to delegate Iraqis to do the business.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1110762,00.html

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Who gives a shit? Saddam is going to get hanged, which is as he was a ruling class cunt.

So anarchy to you is about simple retribution then? Eye for an eye? The way we deal with people killing others on a random basis is kill them too?

Fucking pathetic.

 

[david dissadent]

After 9/11 2001, the build up to full scale war began - something which had been on the cards since Jan 2001. The US already knew they could not win a 'normal' troop war against Iraq. Every traditional military simulation they had tried failed, and they could only continue in their plan if they pretended their own defeats had not happened.

From Luther Blisset.


What does that mean? What is a " 'normal' troop war"?
What defeat are they pretending did not happen?
What is your source for "Every traditional military simulation " and putting emphisis on the "every", who has access to every simulation and said they all failed.

The US and its NATO allies, with UN backing, launched war against Iraq in 1991. They slaughtered Iraqi conscripts and civilians and then betrayed the Kurds whom they claimed they were liberating.

The betrayal was to the Shia in the south especialy around Basra, they released the Repunlican Guard to supress them and allowed helicopters gun ships use of the skys to aid the supression.

Iraq was in debt to the US for all the military equipment it had supplied them with to fight their war against Iran.

Please source this statement. The bulk supliers of big ticket items were the Soviet Union, China and France. The Uk South Africa (in a funky 3 way deal with Israel) and other supplied some kit and equipment but those three supplied the most in dollar terms. What did America supply that was the main cause of the debt? There was some debt to US banks and so on but I always understood the bulk of the debt was to Saudi and Kuwait who were expected to write it off in leiu of Iraqi blood to halt the Ayatollahs. Please correct me proving the bulk of the debt was to America.

 

[kropotkin]

So anarchy to you is about simple retribution then? Eye for an eye? The way we deal with people killing others on a random basis is kill them too?

Fucking pathetic.

err....no

But neither do I give a flying fuck if Hussein (or any other leader of his calibre for that matter) be hanged by the neck till he be dead.

Nice frothing-at-the-mouth though, I was very impressed by that.

 

[Luther Blissett]

From Luther Blisset.


What does that mean? What is a " 'normal' troop war"?
What defeat are they pretending did not happen?
What is your source for "Every traditional military simulation " and putting emphisis on the "every", who has access to every simulation and said they all failed.

hi there, david (cointelpro)
why so coy all of a sudden?
you're normally so giving of your knowledge on all things military in the middle east on urban75

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

(To Kropotkin) So if his death leads to hundreds (probably thousands) of 'collateral' deaths, then that's ok? I'm sure you don't think that, I know that you don't think so simplistically, but i simply don't buy the idea of killing someone as an example of their crimes against others. If his death served to inspire something, then maybe, but as a token of US imperialism, nah sorry.

 

[david dissadent]

hi there, david (cointelpro)
why so coy all of a sudden?
you're normally so giving of your knowledge on all things military in the middle east on urban75

I did not make those statements, you did. I disagree with them on the surface but wish to see your sources to see if I have any mistaken information.

 

[undercover]

Presumably it'll be televised

Pay per view no doubt, I'm sure Murdoch will want in, maybe the same night as the mid terms, advertising revenues will go through the roof.

Whole things a utter sham, whether he's guilty or not. Why did he have to be tried so soon (the word "soon" used in context with the general pace of the rebuilding (ha fucking ha) of Iraq), why not wait until the peace they have long been promised was in place? What other reason except for American political gain?

Sorry, I can understand this sort of view will be dimissed as being mooted by anyone even slightly anti-Bush, but I fail to see how anyone can be anything other than cynical about this particular development.

 

[Fullyplumped]

hi there, david (cointelpro)

Luther, are you accuusing David of being an agent of a foreign power?

 

[undercover]

Luther, are you accuusing David of being an agent of a foreign power?

It's actually "coin tel pro", an old school name for enthusiasts of the old 2p & 5p phone boxes.

 

[ska invita]

But neither do I give a flying fuck if Hussein (or any other leader of his calibre for that matter) be hanged by the neck till he be dead.

Would you be willing to flick the switch?

Death Penalty is just morally wrong in all cases, in my mind.

 

[weltweit]

Would you be willing to flick the switch?

Death Penalty is just morally wrong in all cases, in my mind.

I used to think the same but now I am not so sure.

As a motorcyclist I know that if I ride like an idiot I will probably die so in that small way the death penalty already applies to me.

Is there not a crime people could do to you or your family for which you would be prepared to flick the switch?

 

[slaar]

Will he ever be executed though? He's got loads of cases pending AFAIK for which presumably he'll need to be alive to answer to.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Maybe they could just hand him over to the Kurds. I'm sure they'd like to hear some of his apologies.

 

[undercover]

Will he ever be executed though? He's got loads of cases pending AFAIK for which presumably he'll need to be alive to answer to.

Is it actually possible for him to get something resembling a fair trial within Iraq?

I mean, i get the impression that people either hate him for what he has done, or were behind him at the time and are shit scared of him now, still.

Should this not be, or rather have, occured outside the country with impartial judges?

 

[ViolentPanda]

From Luther Blisset.


What does that mean? What is a " 'normal' troop war"?

"Conventional" ground war sans "Shock and Awe"?

What defeat are they pretending did not happen?

Vietnam?

What is your source for "Every traditional military simulation " and putting emphisis on the "every", who has access to every simulation and said they all failed.

Possibly the wargame sims the Pentagon ran where the ret'd marine corps general running the Iraqi side managed to wipe the floor with the US on every sim (using standard small unit and geurrilla tactics) until his opponents "handicapped" him so heavily that he couldn't deploy.

 

[moono]

I remember that. Lol.

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1060102.php

 

[david dissadent]

"Conventional" ground war sans "Shock and Awe"?

let Luther answer. your just making a tit of yourself.

"Shock and awe" is a sound bite about american airpower. No where in the world is air power considered unconventional nor has it been since 1915.

The US already knew they could not win a 'normal' troop war against Iraq. Every traditional military simulation they had tried failed, and they could only continue in their plan if they pretended their own defeats had not happened.