Saddam Hussein executed

[iROBOT]

Gil Scott-Heron has a line about nostalgia in his rap poem B-Movie.


But the past that they're interested in has little to do with history...and that's the thing about nostalgia: it's a rose-tinted view of the past.

GSH.... I love that man.

There's little difference between the USA's current policy then the gunboat diplomacy of the British Empire, except today they try and dress it up as a push for liberty.

I have to say I'm completely lost in all of this, and cant see a way out other then the partition of Iraq.

Derail...sorry!

 

[Rentonite]

iROBOT Derail aside you may be right. but even then So what?
the issue wont change
The US can leave Iraq, Iraq could be partitioned, pigs could fly,.. and it wont change a thing.
The Muslim Terrorists will still Attack and kill Americans and everyone that is Not muslim, any way they can.
They dont want to take over our land, they dont want to make everyone work for them (slavery)

They are bent on KILLING everyone that is Not muslim
Or so they say.

Ok I know aldebran Wants to justify their rage because of our policys
mmmm
Policys.........

We havent really attacked them AT ALL.

I wonder how long the middle east would last against an America stirred to Total war?
my bet would be about 28 minutes.
we spend hundreds of millions of dollars and many many lives being careful to not hurt anyone there that we concider innocent.
If it was decided that ALL there are enemys (the same way they think of us)
the the American forbearance would end.
And so would the war, shortly thereafter
see, when we as a nation stop careing about how others think of us.
When it becomes obvious that all the forbearance has been for nothing and has just extended this conflict.
We could bring this silly business to a quick termination.
Yet we have not.
THAT is why all the calls of how evil America is are obviously untrue.
I pray to God That such a future will not happen.
yet How could it not?
So alderan what do you think?
Ca mon fella set all the emotional motivations aside
and look at this problem with logic
The arab peoples are only a generation or two away from nomadic tribesman
(as they had been for many thousands of years).
Making the jump from bronze age culture to modern culture has come with some diffaculties.
See, After the second world war when the middle east was set up they where given independance and then we have been PAYING for their oil
it could have easily been different.
so a generation or so later the sons and grandsons want to take over the world?
We have not seen "total War" by a modern country since the second world war.
It may come again.
and for what?

fighting those that would dominate everyone else....

Same ol story........

 

[Fez909]

iROBOT Derail aside you may be right. but even then So what?
the issue wont change
The US can leave Iraq, Iraq could be partitioned, pigs could fly,.. and it wont change a thing.
The Muslim Terrorists will still Attack and kill Americans and everyone that is Not muslim, any way they can.
They dont want to take over our land, they dont want to make everyone work for them (slavery)

If the US left Iraq, it'd be a lot more difficult for 'them' to attack you, would it not? Why are you so in favour of making things easy, and justifiable, so to speak?

They are bent on KILLING everyone that is Not muslim
Or so they say.

Give us a link where a terrorist group has claimed such an aim. Cheers.

Ok I know aldebran Wants to justify their rage because of our policys
mmmm
Policys.........

We havent really attacked them AT ALL.

I wonder how long the middle east would last against an America stirred to Total war?
my bet would be about 28 minutes.
we spend hundreds of millions of dollars and many many lives being careful to not hurt anyone there that we concider innocent.

And doesn't this bother you? That you could've saved all that money, and all those lives, by staying at home and not killing 650,000 people 'accidentally'?

If it was decided that ALL there are enemys (the same way they think of us)
the the American forbearance would end.

"ALL there"? You keep hinting at America's great accomplishment of not killing everyone in sight. You've done it on a few threads now. Sounds more like what you want to happen, rather than what's likely to happen. No matter what one thinks of the US, it has to be said that something like this would never be allowed to happen.

And so would the war, shortly thereafter

I think you'd have a whole new war to deal with if America decided everyone in Iraq was fair game. It wouldn't be pretty, and not in the way you're thinking.

see, when we as a nation stop careing about how others think of us.
When it becomes obvious that all the forbearance has been for nothing and has just extended this conflict.
We could bring this silly business to a quick termination.
Yet we have not.
THAT is why all the calls of how evil America is are obviously untrue.

"We haven't killed everyone, so how can we be evil?"

I pray to God That such a future will not happen.
yet How could it not?

You seriously think this is what is going to happen? Honest question.

So alderan what do you think?
Ca mon fella set all the emotional motivations aside
and look at this problem with logic
The arab peoples are only a generation or two away from nomadic tribesman
(as they had been for many thousands of years).

Let's not let the facts, such as Arabs having one of the earliest civilizations in 800 BC, get in the way of your 'logic', eh?

Making the jump from bronze age culture to modern culture has come with some diffaculties.
See, After the second world war when the middle east was set up they where given independance and then we have been PAYING for their oil
it could have easily been different.

Are you saying they're lucky that the US never just took it?

so a generation or so later the sons and grandsons want to take over the world?
We have not seen "total War" by a modern country since the second world war.
It may come again.
and for what?

For the warped idealism and greed of a cabal of unpatriotic Americans in the truest sense of the word.

fighting those that would dominate everyone else....

Oh! the irony.

Same ol story........

You've not even on the same street as the library, never mind reading from the same book as everyone else.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Actually, this does concern me and as this post proves, you have nothing to offer but narratives and snide comments. You understand nothing of Iraq's history and seem content to wallow in your wilful ignorance as this comment proves.



.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Oh, I forget, you're one of those narrow-minded, bigoted types who only sees things in black and white. History only matters when it has been narrativised to suit your 'argument'..

Dude, you're the one with the selective perception.


Abid Hamid Mahmud al-Tikriti - a relative.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3001730.stm


Qusay Saddam Husayn al-Tikriti
(A.K.A. Qusay Hussein) Chief, Special Security Organization/special Republican Guard (SSO/SRG); Commander, Central Region Commander

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/qusay.htm

 

[Lock&Light]

Dude, you're the one with the selective perception.

Perception!? Nino and perception!?

Unconceivable, IMO.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Ali Hasan al-Majid al-Tikriti
Revolutionary Command Council (RCC) / Commander, Ba'ath Party Regional Command / Inner Circle/ Presidential Advisor/ Head Of Central Workers Bureau

Saddam's cousin.

http://www.cbsnews.com/elements/2003/02/25/in_depth_world/whoswho541986_0_4_person.shtml


Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri
Revolutionary Command Council (RCC) Vice-Chairman / Northern Region Commander / Inner Circle/ Deputy Secretary General, Ba’th Party Regional Command / Deputy Commander, Armed Forces


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/al-douri.htm


Hani abd al-Latif al-Tilfah al-Tikriti
Director, Special Security Organization (SSO) And Responsible For Security And Investigations (MUDIRIYAH NUMBER TWO); Assistant To Qusay;

Saddam's Nephew


Muzahim Sa'b Hasan al-Tikriti
Commander, Iraqi Air Defense Forces/Deputy Director Organization Of Military Industrialization (OMI)




Barzan abd al-Ghafur Sulayman Majid al-Tikriti
Commander, Special Republican Guard (SRG)


Ibrahim Ahmad abd al-Sattar Muhammad al-Tikriti
Chief Of Staff Of Iraqi Armed Forces General Staff & Army


Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti
Director, Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS)


Rafi abd al-Latif Tilfah al-Tikriti
Director, Directorate Of General Security (DGS)


Hamid Raja Shalah al-Tikriti
Commander, Iraqi Air Force


Rukan Razuki abd al-Ghafar Sulayman al-Majid al-Tikriti
Saddam’s Senior Bodyguard/head-Tribal Affairs/inner Circle



Jamal Mustafa abdallah Sultan
al-Tikriti
Saddam’s Personal Security/ Deputy Chief-Tribal Affairs/Inner Circle/ Presidential Diwan/Saddam Husayn’s Son-in-Law

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

so what precisely are you saying about the Iraqi people?

I'm saying that anyone, anywhere, who would make Saddam into a martyr, is an idiot, imo.

 

[Rentonite]

"You've not even on the same street as the library, never mind reading from the same book as everyone else."

How refreshing, I am proud to be one that is not marching in Lock step with everyone here.

Some points of view I find here have merit
many are just the same small group of posters saying the same thing over and over again and again.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

"ALL there"? You keep hinting at America's great accomplishment of not killing everyone in sight. You've done it on a few threads now. Sounds more like what you want to happen, rather than what's likely to happen. No matter what one thinks of the US, it has to be said that something like this would never be allowed to happen.
.

Were there a couple more large scale terrorist attack on US soil, that comment might have to be revisited.

That's what's important about the war on terror. It's not only to protect the lives of innocent westerners; it's to prevent the rage and the retribution that would come if large scale terrorism were to become more widespread.

After 911, the US remained silent for close to five years, and followed an idiot like George Bush. They're just coming out of that now.

A couple more attacks, and the voices of moderation would become silent for much much longer, and the country would countenance much worse.

The new season of 24 started yesterday. The scenario has attacks happening within the US, the govt planning to intern islamics, widespread curtailment of civil rights, etc.

Talking about it, we realized that we've been on the verge of such things, but so far, it remains fiction. But it's a state of affairs that would become all too real, with much more terrorist activity.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Let's not let the facts, such as Arabs having one of the earliest civilizations in 800 BC, get in the way of your 'logic', eh?

.

Which arabic civilization are you talking about in 800 BC?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Are you saying they're lucky that the US never just took it?


.

They had the power to do so, in 1945.

Had the germans consolidated their control of Europe and the Middle East, you can be sure that they wouldn't have been paying anyone for it.

What he's doing, is holding up your view of the American 'Empire', against the facts of what actually happened.

 

[Rentonite]

"And doesn't this bother you? That you could've saved all that money, and all those lives, by staying at home and not killing 650,000 people 'accidentally'?"
=======================================

I highly doubt those numbers but lets say 65,000
we could have easily have stayed home and made it 65,000,000
(thats sixty five Million.)
Yet we expend our nations blood and treasure to minamize unneccessary deaths due to our morality.
I wonder if those we fight would do the same?
they havent yet. ( if you hadnt noticed)

That is the difference.

 

[nino_savatte]

Dude, you're the one with the selective perception.


Abid Hamid Mahmud al-Tikriti - a relative.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3001730.stm


Qusay Saddam Husayn al-Tikriti
(A.K.A. Qusay Hussein) Chief, Special Security Organization/special Republican Guard (SSO/SRG); Commander, Central Region Commander

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/qusay.htm

More obfuscation, you chucked this out because you haven't got much to say by way of reply. As usual, you've addressed none of my points. To you Saddam was the most evil person to walk the earth (yes, that is the tone you have adopted, please don't deny it). For you, the history of Iraq began when Saddam invaded Kuwait.

In your haste to score a cheap point you, rather typically, ignored this.

The former pm, Iyad Allawi is a Shi'a and a former member of the Ba'ath Party.

It's all about cheap point-scoring with you and nothing else.

 

[nino_savatte]

Take your smiley and ram it up your arse. You're a cheap shot artist.

I said

History only matters when it has been narrativised to suit your 'argument'..

You've still not managed to convince me that your knowledge of Iraq goes beyond tabloid-esque narrative.

 

[nino_savatte]

Unconceivable, IMO.

The word is "inconceivable", you thick fuck.

 

[Lock&Light]

The word is "inconceivable", you thick fuck.

Your posts are all that anyone needs to read to judge who is a thick fuck.

 

[nino_savatte]

Originally Posted by Schlock & Shite

Nyah, nyah, nyah! Snipe, snipe, snipe!

It isn't as though you have much to say - is it? If I wanted to read crap, I'd buy The Sun.

There is no such word as "unconceivable", you thick fucking muppet.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

More obfuscation, you chucked this out because you haven't got much to say by way of reply. As usual, you've addressed none of my points. To you Saddam was the most evil person to walk the earth (yes, that is the tone you have adopted, please don't deny it). For you, the history of Iraq began when Saddam invaded Kuwait.

In your haste to score a cheap point you, rather typically, ignored this.



It's all about cheap point-scoring with you and nothing else.

Exceptions make the rule. You mention two who don't fit the mold, compared with the dozen or so I mention, who do.

There are more where that came from, as well.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Take your smiley and ram it up your arse. You're a cheap shot artist.

I said



You've still not managed to convince me that your knowledge of Iraq goes beyond tabloid-esque narrative.

 

[nino_savatte]

Exceptions make the rule. You mention two who don't fit the mold, compared with the dozen or so I mention, who do.

There are more where that came from, as well.

When it comes to Iraq you still haven't got a clue. You rely on information gleaned from approved sources. I could name a few more and I could even tell you that Ba'ath was the idea of a Syria-born Frenchman called Michel Aflaq but that would mean nothing to you because it doesn't fit well with your narratives....nor does the fact that Ba'ath is a secular party.

I'll bet you couldn't tell me what the Farhud was without Googling it nor could you tell me who Abdul Karim Qassem was or what his background was.

You aen't here to discuss, you're here to disrupt and spread more mindless US-sourced propaganda.

 

[nino_savatte]

Two smilies. Wow, I'm impressed. That's the number of brain cells that you can rub together.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nasser was actually portrayed as "another Mussolini" by Eden.

Not true, Eden compared Nasser to Hitler.

But Eden viewed Nasser precisely as another Hitler who refused to honour international agreements
http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=104&id=156622004

Richard Norton-Taylor
Wednesday July 12, 2006
The Guardian

Britain invaded an Arab country led by a man the prime minister branded a dictator on a par with Hitler, who supported "terrorists" and was said to threaten vital western interests in the region. The invasion was based on a falsehood.

That was 50 years ago. Yet Anthony Eden's response to Nasser's decision to nationalise the Suez canal has remarkable parallels with those of his successor, Tony Blair, in another Middle East crisis of the west's own making. [...]

Eden, who had been foreign secretary in the second world war, compared Nasser to Hitler (as did the Labour leader, Hugh Gaitskell).http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1818225,00.html

It seems that, in your haste to undermine me, you overlooked something quite important: the truth.

 

[Lock&Light]

It seems that, in your haste to undermine me, you overlooked something quite important: the truth.

Really?

Quote:

"There is now doubt in our minds that Nasser, whether he likes it or not, is now effectively in Russian hands, just as Mussolini was in Hitler's. It would be as ineffective to show weakness to Nasser now in order to placate him as it was to show weakness to Mussolini."
Eden to President Eisenhower (1 October, 1956).

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anthony_Eden

 

[nino_savatte]

Really?

Quote:

"There is now doubt in our minds that Nasser, whether he likes it or not, is now effectively in Russian hands, just as Mussolini was in Hitler's. It would be as ineffective to show weakness to Nasser now in order to placate him as it was to show weakness to Mussolini."
Eden to President Eisenhower (1 October, 1956).

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Anthony_Eden

Er, it doesn't say in that article that Eden called Nasser "another Mussolini". You obviously haven't read the article properly....why should I be surprised? Your obsession with me has gotten out of control to the point that you have to make things up. Pathetic.

Now go away.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Er, it doesn't say in that article that Eden called Nasser "another Mussolini". You obviously haven't read the article properly....why should I be surprised? Your obsession with me has gotten out of control to the point that you have to make things up. Pathetic.

Now go away.

He won't.

Not until he's had your babies.

 

[Lock&Light]

Quote:

"If we had allowed things to drift, everything would have gone from bad to worse. Nasser would have become a kind of Moslem Mussolini, and our friends in Iraq, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and even Iran would gradually have been brought down. His efforts would have spread westwards, and Libya and North Africa would have been brought under his control."
Eden to Eisenhower (5 November, 1956).

 

[nino_savatte]

He won't.

Not until he's had your babies.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!

I wish he'd get treatment for his condition. If he followed me around IRL like he does here, I'd get the cops onto him.

 

[Lock&Light]

He won't.

Not until he's had your babies.

If you think I've got a bit of a crush on nino, then you must consider his attatchment to Johnny as a full-blown love affair.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If you think I've got a bit of a crush on nino, then you must consider his attatchment to Johnny as a full-blown love affair.

One that will remain unrequited and unconsumated, unless he happens to be in the neighborhood right after I've dropped dead.