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sacked Willis Cleaners demo thursday 5 march

i have not claimed anythng re Mitie UB .. that is in your imagination .. you made objection quite fairly imho to what i had posted .. what was not right was the abuse that went with it .. i still wait for an apology

and yes it is the place of all of us to publicise issues as much as we can .. you are totally wrong on this .. sometimes they may be not what they seems as you suggest here and i am open to acccept it is as you say .. but again there is no excuse for abuse

the idea that i am deliberately posting lies and propaganda is deeply insulting .. you utterly fail yet again to note i posted comments from a Bronwyn ?? which BACK UP your position .. but of o course that underminds your arguement that i have an agenda

i stand by everything i wrote re Visteon as most was FIRSTHAND not second and where second hand was from visteon workers .. Unite embaressed themselves in this dispute

watch the visteon reelnews video .. i know more about that dispute first hand than you did

i am sorry you are in pain but i am not sure that excuses you from insulting people so freely as you do
 
durruti02 said:
i stand by everything i wrote re Visteon as most was FIRSTHAND not second and where second hand was from visteon workers .. Unite embaressed themselves in this dispute
Click to expand...

This is where we will never agree, durrati. As a member of the Unite Regional Committee, its Vice-Chair, I followed the dispute as closely as I could - alas, due to certain constraints, I was unable to visit any of the sites; and, by the time I was in a position to the thing had run its course.

However, our regional committee and E&GP committee responded positively to the dispute. We had a speaker from the dispute at our regional committee in April; and, he was asked what they needed from us - this is when we made the £10,000 donation.

I met with several Visteon people including Kevin Nolan, Ron Clarke and Phil Evans each of whom I spoke with about the dispute. What I don’t understand is why they did not make the criticisms you have made. In fact I recall Ron Clarke specifically making a point of singing Tony Woodley’s praises at a shop stewards combine meeting I attended.

Ok, Unite didn’t manage to save the Visteon jobs. Nor did they use the event to attack the Tory anti trade union laws that shackle our class. But, at no time did I ever hear bureaucrats criticising our members for their occupation of the sites.

Maybe this is all about perception. Unlike many of my SWP Unite Comrades I don’t automatically go into orgasm mode when the word ‘Strike!’ fills the air. I don’t see every dispute as the spark that’ll light the revolution; we don’t live in that kind of world any more – but, did we ever?

Like you durrati, I’ve supported strikes and actions going back to building strikes of the 70s, against the Fash, through the Miners and Wapping, Poll Tax, through to the more recent disability campaigns. However, I do think it is important to separate fact from political or sectarian interests. Planting pieces onto forums because they take your interest; and, because they fit comfortably in with your own political, agenda isn’t an objective way to put forward a point of view.

We are each of us entitled to express a point of view; but, with that entitlement comes a responsibility; a responsibility to report as truthfully as possible; and, in order to do that we must at least know what we’re talking about.

As far as the Willis/Mitie situation is concerned Unite’s UL will not support a campaign that sets out to condemn the union falsely. That would be a betrayal to the 1500 other members of the Branch. When a few people, as in this case, decide to walk away from the collective they cease to be trade unionists and become a collective of the individual.

The pain reference was in connection with my having to finish writing the last post without making all my points.
 
Very early on, I sought to establish durruti's role/motivation etc

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8840500&postcount=6

My impression is that he's wandered into a shitstorm and by association with his normal C&P dissemination of anything vaguely interesting is now completely on the defensive. Fuck knows why he didn't just back off if he wasn't actively involved :D This thing's been a pile of smouldering tinder for fucking ages.

Is this cancerous shit slinging necessary? I misremember whether it's him or balders that's the sufferer but in any event it seems a bit out of order to sling medical conditions around as an insult unless you're prepared to have the same aimed at you.

But beyond all this (petty, time consuming) stuff incl inter-union wrangles - what happens to the cleaners is the important bit?
 
cesare said:
Very early on, I sought to establish durruti's role/motivation etc

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8840500&postcount=6

My impression is that he's wandered into a shitstorm and by association with his normal C&P dissemination of anything vaguely interesting is now completely on the defensive. Fuck knows why he didn't just back off if he wasn't actively involved :D This thing's been a pile of smouldering tinder for fucking ages.

Is this cancerous shit slinging necessary? I misremember whether it's him or balders that's the sufferer but in any event it seems a bit out of order to sling medical conditions around as an insult unless you're prepared to have the same aimed at you.

But beyond all this (petty, time consuming) stuff incl inter-union wrangles - what happens to the cleaners is the important bit?
Click to expand...

Cesare, you're right I was way out of order using medical terminology in my attack on durruti. If I've offended anyone with a cancer condition I do apologise. I am very sorry.
 
Urbanblues said:
Like you durrati, I’ve supported strikes and actions going back to building strikes of the 70s, against the Fash, through the Miners and Wapping, Poll Tax, through to the more recent disability campaigns. However, I do think it is important to separate fact from political or sectarian interests. Planting pieces onto forums because they take your interest; and, because they fit comfortably in with your own political, agenda isn’t an objective way to put forward a point of view.

We are each of us entitled to express a point of view; but, with that entitlement comes a responsibility; a responsibility to report as truthfully as possible; and, in order to do that we must at least know what we’re talking about.

As far as the Willis/Mitie situation is concerned Unite’s UL will not support a campaign that sets out to condemn the union falsely. That would be a betrayal to the 1500 other members of the Branch. When a few people, as in this case, decide to walk away from the collective they cease to be trade unionists and become a collective of the individual.

The pain reference was in connection with my having to finish writing the last post without making all my points.
Click to expand...

thank you for responding without insult and acknowledging my depth of involvement in politics ( since 76/77) and unions ( T&G shop steward in 1985 and shop steward fro NUPE/Unison in virtually every year since etc)

On the issue of whether i have a gripe re the T&G, i think them not better nor worse than any of the others, and as a btw we still have my grandad's medal for 40 years membership of the T&G, as a tinplate worker.

so there is little i disagree with what you write above .. of course there is an absolute responsibility to post responsibly .. but what did i do wrong here to be accuse of being a cunt and spreading cancerous lies?

.. so after and being involved with migrant cleaners and following the JFC i have posted a number of threads to garner support for migrant workers in the City .. and yes never knowing ALL the facts and with NO criticism from anyone

'J4C Union recognition for City cleaners'

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=250045

or 'T&G/Unite challenges migrant exploitation' with qoutes from T.Woodley

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=232848

or maybe this from back in 2006, 'Cleaners occupy Goldman Sacks.. ' with qoutes from T.Woodley again

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=186879

all these threads were supporting T&G supported campaigns .. where were you then??

so now it appears the facts have changed .. we have a dispute with some campaigners supported by some of the left and on the other side J4C, the T&G, including the LUUL, who feel that justice HAS been done

so all of a sudden it becomes 'spreading cancerous lies' to even post about this? and when you made criticisms and i acknowledged them and then posted 2 comments that disputed your position and one comment that BACKED your position, you still rant about cancerous lies?? were the comments I posted of Bronwyn ?? who supported your case 'cancerous lies'??

how can people make up their minds if you censor what people do and say .. imho your mentality sounds stalinist

at the end of the day i disagree with you that people should not just post stuff right or wrong .. it will come out in the wash as this has (maybe done) .. it is MORE important we talk about things than for issues to be hidden ..

indeed ironically you should be grateful that now people know your position on the T&G / LUUL left position on Willis Mitie and this Alberto Durango ;)

btw you still owe an apology
 
cesare said:
Very early on, I sought to establish durruti's role/motivation etc

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=8840500&postcount=6

My impression is that he's wandered into a shitstorm and by association with his normal C&P dissemination of anything vaguely interesting is now completely on the defensive. Fuck knows why he didn't just back off if he wasn't actively involved :D This thing's been a pile of smouldering tinder for fucking ages.

Is this cancerous shit slinging necessary? I misremember whether it's him or balders that's the sufferer but in any event it seems a bit out of order to sling medical conditions around as an insult unless you're prepared to have the same aimed at you.

But beyond all this (petty, time consuming) stuff incl inter-union wrangles - what happens to the cleaners is the important bit?
Click to expand...
hey when do i EVER back off???!! :D

but yes a shitestorm clearly .. judging from my diasgreement with urbanblues over Visteon, where i was closely involved in support and he at a Regional level, I accept what he says here .. to an extent

,.. BUT i also smell a distinct air of over defensiveness, so in my mind i would like to hear more before i entirely make up my mind .. i have to admit the support this dispute is getting is from a pretty sectarian lot (bar Commune) so he may well be completely right .. though he has not done the rep of himself nor the LUUL any favours with his level of abusiveness
 
Well y'know, mebbe you should look at what you've both got in common rather than getting all fucking aeriated.
 
As a humourous aside this is on the UNITE London and Eastern Regional Council minutes...

2 Minutes of Previous Meeting
The Minutes of the Regional Council of 18th December, 2009, were approved.
Click to expand...
 
cesare said:
Well y'know, mebbe you should look at what you've both got in common rather than getting all fucking aeriated.
Click to expand...
when did i get 'aeriated' .. all the 'aeriating' has been done by UB :D

he does have a habit of er getting 'aeriated' on here with others apart from me you know

but yes i am sure we do have a lot in common :)
 
Fedayn said:
As a humourous aside this is on the UNITE London and Eastern Regional Council minutes...
Click to expand...


2 Minutes of Previous Meeting
The Minutes of the Regional Council of 18th December, 2009, were approved.
Click to expand...

Fedayn, it isn't possible for that or any other statement to be "...on the UNITE London and Eastern Regional Council minutes...". It isn't possible because there is no such structure as the Unite London and Eastern Council; therefore, no structure, no minutes from a meeting that hasn't happened.

No, this structure has yet to be created. Up until a couple of months ago there was a T&G Region One Committee, an Amicus London Regional Council, and, an Amicus Eastern Regional Council.

The committee and councils are now in abeyance until early September by which time the new industrial sector structures will be in place.

Therefore, no UNITE London and Eastern Regional Council; ergo, no minutes; thus, no silly typos.

Who's your researcher, durruti?
 
durruti02 said:
hey when do i EVER back off???!! :D

but yes a shitestorm clearly .. judging from my diasgreement with urbanblues over Visteon, where i was closely involved in support and he at a Regional level, I accept what he says here .. to an extent

,.. BUT i also smell a distinct air of over defensiveness, so in my mind i would like to hear more before i entirely make up my mind .. i have to admit the support this dispute is getting is from a pretty sectarian lot (bar Commune) so he may well be completely right .. though he has not done the rep of himself nor the LUUL any favours with his level of abusiveness
Click to expand...

Hey, durruti - a little dab'll do ya!
 
durruti02 said:
:) but seriously there is an important point .. it would not be good if people are scared to post up stuff cos they do know all the details .. that is the point of threads .. to bring it all out
Click to expand...

Who'd want to participate in threads composed of C&P, second-hand, unresearched, erroneous postings?
 
Urbanblues said:
Fedayn, it isn't possible for that or any other statement to be "...on the UNITE London and Eastern Regional Council minutes...". It isn't possible because there is no such structure as the Unite London and Eastern Council; therefore, no structure, no minutes from a meeting that hasn't happened.

No, this structure has yet to be created. Up until a couple of months ago there was a T&G Region One Committee, an Amicus London Regional Council, and, an Amicus Eastern Regional Council.

The committee and councils are now in abeyance until early September by which time the new industrial sector structures will be in place.

Therefore, no UNITE London and Eastern Regional Council; ergo, no minutes; thus, no silly typos.

Who's your researcher, durruti?
Click to expand...

My apologies it's this committee.... I got the committee name wrong.

EASTERN REGIONAL COUNCIL MEETING
Thursday 26th February, 2009
at the Needham Market Office


Click Here

Then click on Meeting 26 February 2009 It's item 2
.
 
Urbanblues said:
Who'd want to participate in threads composed of C&P, second-hand, unresearched, erroneous postings?
Click to expand...
you are incapable arn't you ? .. you have totally ignored my post above which showed that instead of your bullshit above i had been, unlike you who just appears to whine and aeriate, as cesare put it :D, i have been trying to actually publicise T&G run or supported campaigns .. as indeed i believed this latest one to be

so yet again as you must of missed it threads i had already done ..

'J4C Union recognition for City cleaners'

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...d.php?t=250045

'T&G/Unite challenges migrant exploitation' with qoutes from T.Woodley

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...d.php?t=232848

and from back in 2006, 'Cleaners occupy Goldman Sacks.. ' with qoutes from T.Woodley again

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/sho...d.php?t=186879

all these threads were supporting T&G supported campaigns .. where were you then??


any half sensible union activist at this point would now say

" ok fair play i see you have been pushing this issue for a while and have no sectarian motive .. i appreciate you acknoweledge my side of the story and i apologise for kicking off "

from yourself? .. i doubt it .. lets see if you are man enough
 
from http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/07/433688.html

so is John McDonnell also spreading 'cancerous shit' UB , or has he been duped??

"Alberto is a cleaners branch activist in Unite sacked from Schroders Bank by Lancaster cleaning company after a successful campaign against redundancies and for the living wage. He was entrapped by the company and UKBA at company offices, leading to his arrest and subsequent dismissal. One of the charges for gross misconduct was telling the press what had happened to him.

Alberto’s appeal will be heard on Friday at 11:00. Come along show your solidarity in protest at this victimisation of a leading trade union activist:

Lancaster Docklands Office, 31 Beaufort Court, Admirals Way London, E14 9XL Meet 10.30am outside Canary Wharf UNDERGROUND exit

John McDonnell MP says:

"I know how hard Alberto has worked in the campaign to secure a living wage and decent working conditions for his fellow workers. I pay tribute to his tenacity and courage in this campaign. Alberto has stood firm in his determined fight for justice for low paid workers and it is important that we now stand firmly behind him.
You have my wholehearted support. Yours, John McDonnell MP"

Professor Gregor Gall says:

'Unfortunately, Alberto's sacking represents one incident in a growing toll of incidents where union lay officers and activists are sacked, suspended or disciplined by their employers in recent years for various so-called offences which amount to standing up to management on behalf of themselves and their fellow workers. The cases where such victimisation has been rescinded or withdrawn invariably involve robust action from the individual's union and co-workers. I wish Alberto all the best in being able to make this so in his own case.'

Gregor Gall, Research Professor of Industrial Relations,
University of Hertfordshire,


Supported by: Justice for Cleaners @ Schroeders Bank, Latin American Workers Association, National Shop Stewards Network, Clerkenwell & St Pancras Unite branch, MPs John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn and more.

Photo: Alberto (red t-shirt) supporting Willis cleaners sacked by Mitie as they handed in a petition asking for their union Unite's official backing for their five month old protests. (May 2009)


alt media
- e-mail: [email protected]
- Homepage: http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/britain/bosses_using_raids_to_target_activists"
 
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