sacked Willis Cleaners demo thursday 5 march

[durruti02]

Despite having a meeting with Willis management on Monday which was as a result of the previous three demos (two last week),the Willis cleaners are still sacked! They continue to fight and need your support! Please join them in the City, 51 Lime St EC3M 7DQ near Liverpool St Thursday 5 March 13:00 hours.

Please come and show support for sacked cleaners who were organising in Willis for better conditions. They are fighting for reinstatement without the support of their union and need as many supporters as possible! Please bring noise makers and signs.
______________________________________________________________________

If you got any concerns or want to confirm please don't hesitate to contact Edwin 07931464890 or Alberto 07803634319
Email: [email protected]
We really thanks to you all for your presence and cooperation.

"CHEER THE FIGHTING OF THE WORKERS" "VIVA LA LUCHA DE LOS TRABAJADORES"

Background

This dispute started a few months ago when Mitie, without consulting the workers as it ought to have done, established new contracts with Willis Group forcing workers to work full time at night. A situation which the cleaners could not accept.

This attack was successfully confronted at the time by the workers, at the same time as they were involved in a campaign for the Living Wage. But today the struggle needs fresh support, because five Unite union members have since been made forcibly redundant, including the shop steward Edwin Pazmino. It is clear that the company is using restructuring to attack the workers' organization. Negotiations between the union and Mitie on this matter have broken down, following which the workers wrote to both Willis Group Holdings and cleaning contractors Mitie on the 9th of February 2009 to say:

We are 5 cleaners dismissed from your building because we were trying to get better conditions to all the workers. MITIE Cleaning and Support Services Ltd. After we asked for increase of wages they changed the working shifts from 7 to 11 pm to work overnight 10 to 6 am, that change was a clear move to attack and stop us claiming our rights. After the change an interchange of emails with the company and before any appeal the company illegally send us the P45 dismissing us on grounds of redundancy.
Following our letter dated 26th January we would like to let you know that we decided to suspend demonstrations on 30th January at the request of MITIE to negotiate. But unfortunately we could not get our jobs back as requested, and even we did not get any alternative or answer, so we have decided to start a series of demonstrations outside Willis's building starting from Thursday 12th February 2009 until we get our jobs back.
We are appealing to your common sense in order to get our jobs back; we have families to support and children to feed. We are completely sure about the unfairness of the company decision.
We thank you so much beforehand for the attention given to this matter.
Sincerely,
Edwin Pazmino Group Coordinator
c.c. Lucinda Cuellar, Cristina Sergio, Etelvina Cristo, Domingas Dias

Report of the first demonstration at http://thecommune.wordpress.com/2009/02/13/demo-in-the-city-against-unfair-dismissal-of-cleaners/

The demonstrations are supported also by Schroders bank cleaners, London Coalition Against Poverty, Ecuadorian Movement in the UK (MERU), Solidarity Federation and Campaign Against Immigration Controls

Report of second demo here: https://london.indymedia.org.uk/articles/767

These sackings are taking place in various workplaces, so we must be on the alert and fight back in unity to guarantee our rights at work.
PROTEST FOR THE DIGNITY OF THE CLEANERS, SO THAT THEY ARE ALLOWED BACK TO WORK, FOR UNITY AND SOLIDARITY WITH CLEANERS

 

[cesare]

So which one do you want people to go to, durruti?

The banks one, or this one?

Both at lunchtime

Will keep the OB busy though

 

[durruti02]

no idea cesare! just forwarding good stuff

 

[Geri]

I used to work for Willis.

 

[cesare]

no idea cesare! just forwarding good stuff

K, you're not involved, just disseminating stuff?

 

[durruti02]

K, you're not involved, just disseminating stuff?

yes

 

[durruti02]

Following the withdrawal of UNITE support for the Mitie cleaners....."are you going to carry on?" the cops asked last week...
and the refusal to let Alberto speak at the so-called UNITE United Left meeting...cos the Union beureucrats who decided to bel;ieve the bosses rather than their own members....are "important" members of this United Left
it's really important folk turn up....if poss....to show the cleaners are not on their own!

--- On Wed, 24/6/09, jacobin88 wrote:

MITIE CLEANERS WEEKLY DEMO

1300 HBOS 33 OLD BROAD STREET LONDON EC2

Meet 12.30 outside Liverpool St station Mcdonalds

 

[Urbanblues]

Durruti, were you present at the United Left meeting which ‘silenced’ Alberto Durango? Are you even aware that Alberto Durango is not, and, has not ever been an employee of Mitie; and, thus had no direct involvement with the Willis dispute? In other words, Alberto was not one of the ‘sacked Willis Cleaners’; nor indeed is he a member of Unite’s London and Eastern United Left.

Durruti, do you believe in the concept of the collective amongst workers; of collective decisions arrived at by the majority? Or, is your role in life simply that of a messenger boy; disseminating information third hand.

cos the Union beureucrats who decided to bel;ieve the bosses rather than their own members....

Finally durrati, I’d like to hear from you what actually went on in this dispute. Think you can manage that?

 

[durruti02]

urbanblues oh union loyalist .. i have nothing to do with this dispute whatsoever and am merely cutting and pasting from indymedia .. it was what this forum is for .. u are perfectly entitled to put another POV .. and if i am wrong or have put out some sectarian propaganda i will willingly accept this

it shows again weakness on your part that u always try to insult and put down .. (btw as always u are wrong with your insults)

so please any illuminate us with the correct details for this dispute

 

[durruti02]

Yes, I will. However, I'm in awaiting a call from a member of the cleaner’s Branch committee to ascertain the facts; rather than publishing uncorroborated information. You should try it, durrati, instead of just mindlessly posting unconfirmed reports.


a reply from urban blues

"Yes, just as the L&E Unite's United Left meeting was an event for members of the Unite United Left. Yet, Alberto Durango and Chris Ford, neither of whom has ever tried to contact me either as Broad Left or more recently United Left L&E Coordinator to become part of the regional set up.

..

Durrati, strange that you state that nobody from the Willis/Mitie dispute was invited to speak at the NSSN; and, then qualify this with “...it was a conference for trade union activists...” Are you now claiming that Durango and Ford are not trade union activists; if so, why are you continuing to disseminate lies on the ‘sacked Willis Cleaners demo thursday 5 march’ thread?"

again i really have no idea of details here .. you are obsessed mate .. i am simply trying to publicise what appears to be a worthwhile campaign IF you have genuine and serious criticisms to raise this is the forum for it so please do and stop your disgusting personal attacks on me

 

[Urbanblues]

The Mite/Willis Cleaners’ Dispute


• February 2008, the Willis Group altered a contractual arrangement it had with Mitie, the building services company, at a particular London site.
• Mitie then tried to use this as an opportunity to change the cleaners’ contracts from part-time 19:00 – 23:00 to full time; or, failing this make the entire cleaning crew redundant.
• As the 23 cleaners working on the site at the time were either Spanish or Portuguese speaking the case was handed over to a regional industrial officer (RIO) with a South American back ground.
• After a series of negotiations the RIO managed to keep the shifts as they were and won a pay increase from £6 to £7.20 per hour, the then London Living Wage rate.
• At this time 19 of the 23 agreed to move to a new site, on a temporary basis; agreed to the pay rise; and, agreed to working the same hours.
• The remaining 4 workers decided to negotiate with the company to work a full-time night-shift.

All in all the Justice for Cleaners Branch considered this a success.

• However, temporary situations have a habit of running their course; and, such was the situation with the 19 Mitie cleaners.
• And so, in August 2008 Mitie wanted to move some of the 19 over to Canary Wharf; a proposition turned down by the workers because the hours and place of work were inconvenient for some.
• By November 2008 the company began to consult with 7 of the cleaners. Instead of the Canary Wharf contract they were offered one within the City; and, asked to work from 18:00 – 22:00 with a wage increase, taking them to £7.50 per hour. The cleaners refused these terms.
• On 2nd December 2008 a meeting was held with the cleaners, the company and the union. At this meeting the company offered the cleaners a deal whereby they could start work at 18:30 and finish at 22:00, yet receive the full four hours pay; however, if they refused these terms Mitie would make them redundant.
• The upshot of the offer was that 7 people accepted, while 2 declined – on the grounds that their other job didn’t finish until 18:00.
• The RIO then asked Mitie if they could keep the remaining two at their present contract while the issue was resolved.
• By 8th December, and while the RIO was on holiday, Mitie informed the Willis cleaners they were pressing ahead with redundancies.
• Back on duty the RIO was informed of the situation with our Willis/Mite members; and, sent out appeal letters to Mitie.
• As it was late December some of the members involved were on holiday; and so, the RIO arranged the appeals for January.
• The appeal hearings went ahead on 14th January with the RIO representing 5 of the 7 cleaners, as 2 members opted out of the appeal.
• Shortly after one of the group, ‘C’, pulled out.
• Mitie agreed to look to reinstate the workers in other contracts while the appeals were being processed.
• Before any appeals decisions had been made, around 26th January, one of the appellants, ‘P’, without consulting with either his RIO or his Branch informed the company that he intended a series of pickets outside the Willis building.
• So, while negotiations were ongoing this group eschewed advice from their union official and Branch; and, instead walk away mouthing that time honoured expedient ‘We’ve been betrayed!’
• Despite the RIO attempting to resolve the situation at the highest levels ‘P’ informed him that they did not want Unite involved in their dispute as they had other people to negotiate on their behalf.
• Almost immediately following this a senior Mite manager tried to resolve the issue through Woodley and Dromey.
• On February 4th a meeting was convened between the workers and the company with the RIO present. The one stipulation laid down by the company was that the picketing of Willis could not continue whilst negotiations were ongoing.
• After consultation with various people, including the Justice for Cleaners Branch, the RIO informed the workers picketing Willis that the Union could not support their protest; but, would carry on negotiations with the company should those involved wish so.
• The demonstrations continued and sadly as a consequence Mitie ceased any further dialogue with the cleaners involved in picketing action.
• So, following all this the two sacked workers and their supporters tried to persuade others to join their campaign, but to no avail; even the Justice for Cleaners Branch declined involvement.
• In May this year a supporter of the sacked cleaners attended a meeting of the cleaners Branch. This Branch represents 1500 cleaners; and, the supporter was given the opportunity to put his case to the Branch Committee of 11 members.
• The supporter asked the Branch to support the ‘campaign’; and, after much deliberation the Committee unanimously rejected the appeal, supporting the union’s part in throughout the dispute.

How exactly has the union betrayed these two workers? They, quite rightly, approached the union for help originally; and, as far as I’m concerned the union entered negotiations on their behalf in good faith. The fact that the two workers then ‘dismissed’ the union insisting they had their own people to negotiate on their behalf was in my view foolhardy; but, it was their prerogative.


While it is the prerogative of any union member to waive the advice and representation of their union; they can hardly cry ‘Foul’ when they do this whilst negotiations are ongoing. To accuse their union of betrayal before it has had a chance to make full representations makes no sense at all. Had the company refused to meet with them; or, if the outcome had been predetermined I’d say they had a point. But, these were not factors in this equation. It would seem the sacked workers were made an offer they couldn’t refuse by someone else.

How many times have we as shop stewards experienced the disgruntled member who when they don’t get the answer they want search around in the vain hope that someone else will say ‘yes’ to them – invariably a ‘no-win-no-fee’ shyster.

When the Remploy factories in London were closing it was us, the shop stewards and Branch Officers, who copped the blame. The same people who had led the Campaign from the front; criss-crossing the country in all weathers to march and rally. Yet, we had sold them out. What had they contributed to the campaign? For the most part their £2.60 odd a week union dues.

At no time since the Willis dispute began, 18-months ago, have any of the sacked cleaners attempted to contact either the T&G’s Broad Left, the Amicus Unity Gazette, or Unite’s ‘United Left’; that is until 18th June. However, this did not stop them turning up uninvited, and making demands from an organisation to which they were not affiliated.

The On Thursday 18th June Alberto Durango and Chris Ford turned up at Unite’s L&E United Left as representatives of the sacked Willis cleaners, a company neither had worked for – seems Alberto was a manager with a cleaning company who himself had been sacked; and, Chris Ford, a member of Unite for a matter of weeks, is quite simply someone who doesn’t like trade unions, their officials or their structures – or, at least those he can’t control.

The meeting that night had an extremely full agenda, including extended disputes reports, committee officers’ elections, discussions on the up-and-coming sector committee structures, a debate on the GS hustings, and, a discussion around the People’s Charter.

Like all such meetings discipline is called for. That evening a small group of malcontents decided to continuously disrupt the meeting; thus, when somebody proposed allowing an uninvited visitor to speak on an issue, an issue by the way whose main players had walked away from the union, the Chair declined – did the Willis cleaners act in the same disrespectful way at the NSSN last Saturday?

After several minutes of disruption, and outpourings of disgraceful language from a couple of those out to cause trouble at any cost, the Chair asked the meeting to decide whether the Willis campaign reps should be given the floor.

27 voted to hear the Willis campaign reps; and, the count for the ‘No’ vote was stopped at 39 – at the time there were around 80 people still in attendance.

 

[durruti02]

thank you and about time .. it took you 3 and a half months to post this .. meanwhile you think it acceptable to accuse someone innocently posting of 'spreading cancerous shit' you should be fucking ashamed of your language .. seriously is this the way you always relate to people let alone fellow union stewards?? it is disgusting and you owe me and apology

and for the record i have absolutely no way of knowing who is right on this .. much of what you right sounds right and i have as much experiance of stupid leftists as u do, so i am just as willing to believe this is a bullshit campaign by one sect, as it is a case of union failure .. though i suspect there is still more to be told

and maybe next time instead of resorting to personal abuse you could post what your side of the story is, at the time?

 

[durruti02]

ok so i di some research and it all sounds like a pretty nasty affair

" #

A little background to the tasks facing the NSSN arising from the United Left London and South East meeting on Thursday 18th.

Can’t you hear the Gulag calling?
By Gerry Downing
“There was uproar at the Unite London ‘United Left’ on Thursday night (18th) when any discussion of the Mitie workers’ dispute at Willis was blocked and the sacked Unite cleaners’ rep at Schroeders, Alberto Durango, was denied the opportunity to address the meeting.
Two branch officers from the Clerkenwell and St Pancras Branch of Unite who have supported the sacked cleaners attended the meeting – the Secretary Monica Gort and the Organiser Chris Ford, and also some lay reps; they came with Alberto, a member of the Unite Cleaners Branch Committee. They attended expecting to secure solidarity from other Unite activists in London in widening support for the cleaners and to back calls for Asst. General Secretary Jack Dromey to reverse his withdrawal of support for the dispute. The complete opposite occurred.” (Chris Kane, The Commune Blog; http://thecommune.wordpress.com)
What a sick bunch of class traitors who would do this to a representative of the most oppressed workers in the land. But Alberto’s method was to fight the bosses and mobilise the ranks of his membership; the actions of Unite officials was to broker a class compromise to achieve some union subs but leave the workers where they were – remember JJ Fast Foods, Brother Kelly? (Jim Kelly, the bureaucratic chair of the meeting had supported the JJ Fast Foods strike about a decade ago, making just this point about the T&G bureaucracy himself). As Alberto observed, “United Left? These people are just right-wingers”. Of course they are and Alberto’s intervention tore aside the mask of these fake leftists completely on the night. He and his supporters won the taking of a vote at the second time of asking because of the intervention of a SP steward (the No2EU rotten block surely cannot survive this ‘treachery’). The 28 to 39 vote (Jim Kelly’s count has been questioned) to silence Alberto (because there were six people in the meeting who did not agree with the conduct of the dispute by Alberto) revealed the truth – a cynical resignation to his fate would not have provided the basis for a campaign against this betrayal.
The meeting of about seventy was already highly charged as both the SWP and the CPB-dominated bureaucracy had mobilised for it. The United Left is fundamentally a nomenklatura organisation, a jobs-and-positions-allocating Woodleyite front. Every vote against Alberto was bought and paid for by that system. It combines the former TGWU Broad Left and the Amicus Gazette group. This was set up at the 21 February launch AGM as a ‘consensus’ organisation where no votes were to be taken except in extremis and even then they were to be ‘weighted’, i.e. bureaucrats would arrive at meetings with members’ votes in their pockets to ensure no rank-and-file mass movement could swamp them. And of course a ‘slate’ of leadership contenders would be agreed in advance to be ‘consensus-ised’ at the AGM. Applause was the method of testing support, you could fold your arms if you were a ‘troublemaker’ and did not approve. Both the SWP and the SP had agreed to this but events in the class struggle had ripped this consensus apart (see Socialist Fight No. 2, pp.12 -14 for an analysis of these events).
In short the SP was welcomed into the No2EU CPB-Bob Crow chauvinist Europhobic ‘platform’ whereas the SWP was excluded because it took a ‘bad’ (i.e. half-good) position on Bj4Bw. So Ted Knight got hold of a leaflet at the start of the meeting containing a slate excluding himself and the SWP. He was given short shrift by Jim Kelly, the chair, when he objected to the undemocratic nature of the slate and the breakdown of consensus. In fact the SWP did not force a vote on their exclusion because they could see that the CPB/fulltime bureaucrats had mobilised heavily against them, and their slate was duly elected.
The meeting demonstrated the rise and rise of the TU bureaucracy and the snuffing out of democracy for the ranks of the membership itself. Every vote there was bought and paid for by the nomenklatura system developed by Joe Stalin himself and operated by every union bureaucracy in the world now; if you want to advance in the union structures you must comply with the system of patronage, you must vote as required, you must betray your class to advance your own career. To some of the hard-line Stalinists present this was back to the Gulag days and so was no problem. Rod Finlayson, was confident in his Stalinism and in his attacks on MPs Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell and “their supporters here”, obviously beginning with the troublemaker Ted Knight. The MPs had supported Alberto and the Mitie cleaners, this was interfering in the internal affairs of Unite and so exposing the anti-working class ‘partnership’ methods of Unite. A TGWU RIO, Pat Mahon, made just this accusation in a letter and subsequent telephone call, on loudspeaker in the Woodberry office, from Ken Livingstone (my MP in Brent East at the time), who had just intervened to prevent my sacking in 1999 by a joint union-management effort. Your nostalgia for the good old days of the Gulag was palpable, Rod!
Jim Kelly excelled himself in his bureaucratic railroading of the meeting. “Are you sure” he shouted at a wayward supporter who voted to hear the victimised cleaner speak – “no seat on the regional committee for you comrade”, he might as well have said as the power mad former rank-and-file supporter of the Building Working Group (remember Brian Higgins, Jim, that super scourge of the bureaucrats in UCATT?) displayed his allegiance to Stalinism and the other side of his coat.
But surely the accolade for class traitor of the night (there were many contenders!) must go to Bronwyn Handyside. This former Trotskyist, fellow WRP CC member, editor of the Workers Press and champion of the Liverpool dockers against Bill Morris’s treachery sold her soul to Stalinist bureaucracy on the TGWU Broad Left some time back when she accepted their patronage to advance in the union structures. When she voted to deny the victimised cleaners’ rep a voice she at least had the good grace to blush and afterwards say she wished it had not come to a vote. Never mind, Bronwyn, like the old German Social Democrats after the 4 August 1914 vote to supply the Kaiser with the war credits to enable the slaughter of WWI to proceed, a feeling of great freedom and liberation will quickly overcome those feelings of shame and sympathy for the oppressed. This is an account of their terrible dilemma post 1914:
“Taking their cue from the SPD, trade union leaders suspended strikes and established a policy of class collaboration, known as the Burgfrieden in Germany and the union sacrée in France. The party and trade union leaders …had already travelled down the reformist road, (this) was well illustrated by a member from the left of the party, Konrad Haenisch:”
“The conflict of two souls in one breast was probably easy for none of us… This fear: will you not also betray yourself and your cause? … [Thus it was] until suddenly…the terrible tension was resolved…until¬, despite all principles and wooden theories¬ one could, for the first time in almost a quarter century, join with a full heart, a clean conscience and without a sense of treason in the sweeping, stormy song: ‘Deutschland, Deutschland, Über Alles”. Issue 76 of International Socialism, Prelude to revolution: Class consciousness and the First World War, Megan Trudell
Surely the SWP and the SP must now recognise the hopelessly undemocratic nature of this full-time officer dominated group and begin to fight within it to form a new principled, anti-bureaucratic rank-and-file opposition of class struggle fighters.

Comment by Gerry Downing — 21 June, 2009 @ 7:05 pm" from socialist unity i.e. AWL

 

[durruti02]

“There was uproar at the Unite London ‘United Left’ on Thursday night (18th) when any discussion of the Mitie workers’ dispute at Willis was blocked and the sacked Unite cleaners’ rep at Schroeders, Alberto Durango, was denied the opportunity to address the meeting.
Two branch officers from the Clerkenwell and St Pancras Branch of Unite who have supported the sacked cleaners attended the meeting – the Secretary Monica Gort and the Organiser Chris Ford, and also some lay reps; they came with Alberto, a member of the Unite Cleaners Branch Committee. They attended expecting to secure solidarity from other Unite activists in London in widening support for the cleaners and to back calls for Asst. General Secretary Jack Dromey to reverse his withdrawal of support for the dispute. The complete opposite occurred.” (Chris Kane, The Commune Blog; http://thecommune.wordpress.com)

teh commune a pretty non sectarian in my knowledge

 

[Urbanblues]

thank you and about time .. it took you 3 and a half months to post this .. meanwhile you think it acceptable to accuse someone innocently posting of 'spreading cancerous shit' you should be fucking ashamed of your language .. seriously is this the way you always relate to people let alone fellow union stewards?? it is disgusting and you owe me and apology

No, it didn’t take 3½ months to post this reply. My knowledge of this dispute is a few weeks, and, this post a few days; as my first post, on 28th June indicates.

Yes, I do think it acceptable to accuse you of spreading cancerous shit, when in my view that is precisely what you are doing. By your own admission you don’t know anything about the subject you’re posting; yet, you post anyway. What exactly does that make you?

I’ve treated you with the contempt you deserve; and, as long as you spread filthy propaganda and lies I will condemn you for the liar you are.

Coming to think of it, if anything, durrati, you owe the Justice for Cleaners and their RIO an apology. If you'd like to PM it to me I'll see it gets to them.

and for the record i have absolutely no way of knowing who is right on this .. much of what you right sounds right and i have as much experiance of stupid leftists as u do, so i am just as willing to believe this is a bullshit campaign by one sect, as it is a case of union failure .. though i suspect there is still more to be told

Look pal, you can make your own mind up on the veracity of my version of events. However, since you admit you don’t know the facts behind this dispute, why comment? Sometimes the best policy is ‘say nothing’; especially, when you haven’t a fucking clue what you’re talking about.

Take me as an example, pal; I went out and spoke to people from the Branch involved. Not for me sourcing second, third, fourth, or some nebulous statement made on a Left Loony rant site.

No. I researched the issue. Try it; it can be very cathartic.

and maybe next time instead of resorting to personal abuse you could post what your side of the story is, at the time?

It has taken me two days to post this piece; two days during which I’ve had to await phone calls from four different people; people who work different shifts patterns in a 24-hour industry; people, durrati, who know the background to the dispute.

Durrati, your way of posting messages is of course more immediate. You simply trawl sites cut and paste; and, voila, another posting of half-truths and salacious union bashing yarns.

 

[the button]

Have you ever had any dealings with Gerry Downing, durruti?

 

[Urbanblues]

ok so i di some research and it all sounds like a pretty nasty affair

" #

A little background to the tasks facing the NSSN arising from the United Left London and South East meeting on Thursday 18th.

Can’t you hear the Gulag calling?
By Gerry Downing
“There was uproar at the Unite London ‘United Left’ on Thursday night (18th) when any discussion of the Mitie workers’ dispute at Willis was blocked and the sacked Unite cleaners’ rep at Schroeders, Alberto Durango, was denied the opportunity to address the meeting.
Two branch officers from the Clerkenwell and St Pancras Branch of Unite who have supported the sacked cleaners attended the meeting – the Secretary Monica Gort and the Organiser Chris Ford, and also some lay reps; they came with Alberto, a member of the Unite Cleaners Branch Committee. They attended expecting to secure solidarity from other Unite activists in London in widening support for the cleaners and to back calls for Asst. General Secretary Jack Dromey to reverse his withdrawal of support for the dispute. The complete opposite occurred.” (Chris Kane, The Commune Blog; http://thecommune.wordpress.com)
What a sick bunch of class traitors who would do this to a representative of the most oppressed workers in the land. But Alberto’s method was to fight the bosses and mobilise the ranks of his membership; the actions of Unite officials was to broker a class compromise to achieve some union subs but leave the workers where they were – remember JJ Fast Foods, Brother Kelly? (Jim Kelly, the bureaucratic chair of the meeting had supported the JJ Fast Foods strike about a decade ago, making just this point about the T&G bureaucracy himself). As Alberto observed, “United Left? These people are just right-wingers”. Of course they are and Alberto’s intervention tore aside the mask of these fake leftists completely on the night. He and his supporters won the taking of a vote at the second time of asking because of the intervention of a SP steward (the No2EU rotten block surely cannot survive this ‘treachery’). The 28 to 39 vote (Jim Kelly’s count has been questioned) to silence Alberto (because there were six people in the meeting who did not agree with the conduct of the dispute by Alberto) revealed the truth – a cynical resignation to his fate would not have provided the basis for a campaign against this betrayal.
The meeting of about seventy was already highly charged as both the SWP and the CPB-dominated bureaucracy had mobilised for it. The United Left is fundamentally a nomenklatura organisation, a jobs-and-positions-allocating Woodleyite front. Every vote against Alberto was bought and paid for by that system. It combines the former TGWU Broad Left and the Amicus Gazette group. This was set up at the 21 February launch AGM as a ‘consensus’ organisation where no votes were to be taken except in extremis and even then they were to be ‘weighted’, i.e. bureaucrats would arrive at meetings with members’ votes in their pockets to ensure no rank-and-file mass movement could swamp them. And of course a ‘slate’ of leadership contenders would be agreed in advance to be ‘consensus-ised’ at the AGM. Applause was the method of testing support, you could fold your arms if you were a ‘troublemaker’ and did not approve. Both the SWP and the SP had agreed to this but events in the class struggle had ripped this consensus apart (see Socialist Fight No. 2, pp.12 -14 for an analysis of these events).
In short the SP was welcomed into the No2EU CPB-Bob Crow chauvinist Europhobic ‘platform’ whereas the SWP was excluded because it took a ‘bad’ (i.e. half-good) position on Bj4Bw. So Ted Knight got hold of a leaflet at the start of the meeting containing a slate excluding himself and the SWP. He was given short shrift by Jim Kelly, the chair, when he objected to the undemocratic nature of the slate and the breakdown of consensus. In fact the SWP did not force a vote on their exclusion because they could see that the CPB/fulltime bureaucrats had mobilised heavily against them, and their slate was duly elected.
The meeting demonstrated the rise and rise of the TU bureaucracy and the snuffing out of democracy for the ranks of the membership itself. Every vote there was bought and paid for by the nomenklatura system developed by Joe Stalin himself and operated by every union bureaucracy in the world now; if you want to advance in the union structures you must comply with the system of patronage, you must vote as required, you must betray your class to advance your own career. To some of the hard-line Stalinists present this was back to the Gulag days and so was no problem. Rod Finlayson, was confident in his Stalinism and in his attacks on MPs Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell and “their supporters here”, obviously beginning with the troublemaker Ted Knight. The MPs had supported Alberto and the Mitie cleaners, this was interfering in the internal affairs of Unite and so exposing the anti-working class ‘partnership’ methods of Unite. A TGWU RIO, Pat Mahon, made just this accusation in a letter and subsequent telephone call, on loudspeaker in the Woodberry office, from Ken Livingstone (my MP in Brent East at the time), who had just intervened to prevent my sacking in 1999 by a joint union-management effort. Your nostalgia for the good old days of the Gulag was palpable, Rod!
Jim Kelly excelled himself in his bureaucratic railroading of the meeting. “Are you sure” he shouted at a wayward supporter who voted to hear the victimised cleaner speak – “no seat on the regional committee for you comrade”, he might as well have said as the power mad former rank-and-file supporter of the Building Working Group (remember Brian Higgins, Jim, that super scourge of the bureaucrats in UCATT?) displayed his allegiance to Stalinism and the other side of his coat.
But surely the accolade for class traitor of the night (there were many contenders!) must go to Bronwyn Handyside. This former Trotskyist, fellow WRP CC member, editor of the Workers Press and champion of the Liverpool dockers against Bill Morris’s treachery sold her soul to Stalinist bureaucracy on the TGWU Broad Left some time back when she accepted their patronage to advance in the union structures. When she voted to deny the victimised cleaners’ rep a voice she at least had the good grace to blush and afterwards say she wished it had not come to a vote. Never mind, Bronwyn, like the old German Social Democrats after the 4 August 1914 vote to supply the Kaiser with the war credits to enable the slaughter of WWI to proceed, a feeling of great freedom and liberation will quickly overcome those feelings of shame and sympathy for the oppressed. This is an account of their terrible dilemma post 1914:
“Taking their cue from the SPD, trade union leaders suspended strikes and established a policy of class collaboration, known as the Burgfrieden in Germany and the union sacrée in France. The party and trade union leaders …had already travelled down the reformist road, (this) was well illustrated by a member from the left of the party, Konrad Haenisch:”
“The conflict of two souls in one breast was probably easy for none of us… This fear: will you not also betray yourself and your cause? … [Thus it was] until suddenly…the terrible tension was resolved…until¬, despite all principles and wooden theories¬ one could, for the first time in almost a quarter century, join with a full heart, a clean conscience and without a sense of treason in the sweeping, stormy song: ‘Deutschland, Deutschland, Über Alles”. Issue 76 of International Socialism, Prelude to revolution: Class consciousness and the First World War, Megan Trudell
Surely the SWP and the SP must now recognise the hopelessly undemocratic nature of this full-time officer dominated group and begin to fight within it to form a new principled, anti-bureaucratic rank-and-file opposition of class struggle fighters.

Comment by Gerry Downing — 21 June, 2009 @ 7:05 pm" from socialist unity i.e. AWL

Durrati, I was present at the meeting from beginning to end. The meeting was lively; disagreements grew from the different factions present. I know all the actors on the stage; I watched all the scenes as they played themselves out; I listened to the dialogue, including one or two soliloquies.

In fact Durrati, I was the scribe at that particular production. So, I’d be careful what you quote here, as I was there and you weren’t.

Gerry Downing. Do you know Gerry? I do; and, any credibility Gerry may once upon a time been in possession of has, alas, long faded away. The information in his rant is largely erroneous. A couple of examples:
1. Chris Ford has not been a member of Unite long enough to become a Branch Organiser.

2. Alberto Durango is not on the Committee of the Justice for Cleaners Branch – not as Gerry mistakenly named it the ‘Unite Cleaners Branch’.

3. Ford and Durango were not blocked from speaking. A vote was called for, by an SWP supporter that wanted Ford and Durango to speak; and, he lost the vote by 29 to 37. Which part of that democratic process have you got problems with, durrati?

4. The idea that Unite has withdrawn support is risible. The sacked workers walked away; they actually sacked the union!

5. Alberto Durango was not one of the sacked Willis workers; but, Gerry doesn’t allow facts like these to derail him when he’s on a rant.

If you’re going to quote someone who was present at the meeting; for fucks sake you can surely do better than Gerry.

 

[Urbanblues]

“There was uproar at the Unite London ‘United Left’ on Thursday night (18th) when any discussion of the Mitie workers’ dispute at Willis was blocked and the sacked Unite cleaners’ rep at Schroeders, Alberto Durango, was denied the opportunity to address the meeting.
Two branch officers from the Clerkenwell and St Pancras Branch of Unite who have supported the sacked cleaners attended the meeting – the Secretary Monica Gort and the Organiser Chris Ford, and also some lay reps; they came with Alberto, a member of the Unite Cleaners Branch Committee. They attended expecting to secure solidarity from other Unite activists in London in widening support for the cleaners and to back calls for Asst. General Secretary Jack Dromey to reverse his withdrawal of support for the dispute. The complete opposite occurred.” (Chris Kane, The Commune Blog; http://thecommune.wordpress.com)

teh commune a pretty non sectarian in my knowledge

Durrati, neither you nor Chris Kane were present. 'The Commune' may be in your view non-sectarian; however, what does publishing one side of a meeting from a second-hand point of view say about the objectivity of ‘The Commune’?

Maybe non-sectarian; but biased, yes; and, impartial, no.

 

[durruti02]

UB .. you seem to have entirely misunderstood U75 and what it is for ( though your recent posts are fine) .. i and others post things that sounds interesting and taht need publcising and discussing

.. IF people have a differrent opinion .. they state that .. really simple .. why did you not do that to begin with and work yourself up so?

and again i know nothing of Chris Ford and Gerry Dowling but they both sound like sectarian bores tbh

and again your side of the argument sounds ,as i said, kosher, though i suspect these things are never so black and white

but your attack on me was inexcusable and you still owe an apology .. and don't give me all that 'be careful shite' lol

 

[durruti02]

from http://thecommune.wordpress.com/200...latforms-victimised-activist-alberto-durango/

"This response by Bronwen Handyside is being circulated by Bob Archer of the United Socialist Party, I think it should be publicised if not only that people see the pack of lies being put around about these workers and decent union activists!

Hi all,

last night at the UnitedLeft meeting a group of people turned up with a cleaner from the Mitie dispute. They had not announced that they would turn up to the chair or the organiser of the meeting. One of the people who turned up is Chris Ford, who recently joined Unite – about a month ago. The others were Monica Gort, who is a good, conscientious trades unionist, and also a young guy Jake, who is an anarchist. The agenda was circulated some two weeks in advance saying that if people wanted to put something on the agenda for the meeting, they needed to do so a week in advance.

We had an item on disputes on the agenda where we received reports from Visteon, from the Rob Williams dispute, and a report from the Chair of London buses outlining plans for bus strikes after the summer period – and explaining that at present all bus garages are in dispute with their employer because they are demanding that wages be centrally negotiated.

The history of the Mitie cleaners dispute – as I ascertained from various people in the UnitedLeft, and the people who turned up to the meeting along with the cleaner is that there were 28 people involved in the dispute originally. Their shifts were changed by the employer. Some of them had been involved in the Justice for Cleaners campaign on wages. Of the 28 workers, the officer concerned (a Colombian refugee) found satisfactory solutions for 24. The remaining four would not accept the compromise solution the officer achieved for them – because it involved, as I understand, fewer hours for them to work. While a tribunal was taking place, against the advice of the officer, they held some kind of demonstration. They have continued to picket offices near Liverpool Street . The officer concerned decided that he had found the best solution he could find for them, and that their refusal to accept it was unreasonable. He then ceased to help them out. My understanding is also that there are no longer the original four people still continuing to campaign – the people who brought the cleaner to the meeting explained that some of the four had moved on. The cleaners’ own branch (according to Sean McGovern) has ceased to support them.

This group of people are now going around the movement saying the dispute was sold out by Unite.

Although I did not know all the ins and outs of exactly what happened in the dispute (which I am tracking down today), when the group who brought the cleaner, together with the SWP and some others at the meeting (Ted Knight, Gerry Downing) demanded the chair take a vote on whether to hear the cleaner speak, I took the decision to vote against. The vote was lost 28 to 39.

It seemed clear to me, from the information I was able to gather from people I think I can trust that the officer concerned had done the best he could in the circumstances to get the best settlement he could. The officer concerned was present at the meeting with 12 cleaners. It was clear to me that the group who brought the cleaner there were there for destructive and not constructive purposes – it was to be an attack on the union proving what they already knew – the general principle that the union will always sell out and betray you.

You will no doubt hear more from Chris Ford and Gerry Downing. Let’s hope I haven’t sold out to the beaurocracy – but in the pub after the meeting the kind of people I was talking to reminded me very much of the Liverpool dockers – from across all sectors of the union – public service, buses, Food Drink and Tobacco, porters, general workers, and of course black cabs.

I think I was right to vote in the way I did.

Bronwen"

 

[durruti02]

two posts form someone else at the meeting


"Just a few factual observations:

1. The majority of cleaners did not get a satisfactory solution. The shop steward has prepared a list saying what happened to each one. We do not necessarily blame the union for this necessarily: the horse had bolted once Mitie pushed through the new night shift working. But there were all kinds of outcomes and a very common one was people dropped out and found other jobs because they could not see a solution in sight or an appropiate one was not offered. The cleaning sector has a very high turnover, especially with immigraton raids!

2. The sticking point in the negotiations, ongoing at the time they were made redundant, was the starting time, not the number of hours. There was a 15 minute difference between the times being proposed by each side, according to the workers. Its an issue because these workers, like many low paid workers, do more than one job (or combine it with study).

3. All four are currently still fighting: three of them handed in a petition personally at Transport House at the end of May. It is others who, understandably have moved on. One of the four is the shop steward – they guy who unionized the whole of the original workforce. He is still proud to be a union member.

4. Unless someone can correct me, there were not 12 cleaners branch members at the UL meeting. There was the full time officer, plus two, maybe three branch committee members who’ve worked in cleaning. Of these, three left very early on in the meeting. There were another two persons who are not connected as far as I know to the industry but are deeply involved in the newly created branch. One of those who left early had tried to chase Willis cleaners out of a Justice for Cleaners event where they were collecting signatures for the petition asking the union to reconsider its position. He did not succeed and dozens of Unite cleaners signed the petition. He later turned up at the lobby outside Transport House where we handed in the petition, and started taking photos of us and filming us. He stopped when confronted by members of the branch and Colombia Solidarity Campaign. Is delivering a petition to your union, while wrapped in union colours, a crime?

6. On the day of the United Left meeting, four full time officials met with a member of the Latin American Workers Association (a refugee from Colombia), and the regional secretary said the Association was being anti union, because of supporting Willis, and because of supporting a Papers for All position at the Strangers into Citizens rally on May 4th, to the point of holdig an alternative rally with other groups in Trafalgar Square. A detailed report of this meeting wil come out shortly.

7. Where the Willis case has been heard it has received great support, eg from the Construction branch of Unite in London.

8. Two people regularly supporting the Willis dispute have been arrested by immigration during its course. One is now free (Alberto Durango). The police thought he worked for Mitie…. The other is in Yarls Wood detention centre: Emilia. See her testimony in separate post on this blog.

A young Jake, secretary Latin Amwerican Workers Association."

 

[durruti02]

"Jake. (22:42:15) :

At the National Shop Stewards Network conference today, Unite arranged for three people, including at least one full time officer and the spy referred to earlier, to distribute official union leaflets attacking the “4 cleaners and their supporters” for being anti-union etc for ‘personal and political reasons’. The leaflet featured a full colour photo of the full-time official for the cleaners branch.

It is incredible that they should tarnish such an event in this way. Together with their repeated references to ‘outside interests’ supposedly controlling the Willis campaign, some Unite officers are showing the extent to which they go to protect their image, and how threatened they feel by unofficial protests directed at the COMPANIES, and public criticisms (shock!) of the union’s official position.

The irony is that the very workers involved in the dispute and their supporters, had done so much to build the justice for cleaners campaign in the past. The same campaign which the same leaflet boasts about."

 

[Urbanblues]

UB .. you seem to have entirely misunderstood U75 and what it is for ( though your recent posts are fine) .. i and others post things that sounds interesting and taht need publcising and discussing

.. IF people have a differrent opinion .. they state that .. really simple .. why did you not do that to begin with and work yourself up so?

and again i know nothing of Chris Ford and Gerry Dowling but they both sound like sectarian bores tbh

and again your side of the argument sounds ,as i said, kosher, though i suspect these things are never so black and white

but your attack on me was inexcusable and you still owe an apology .. and don't give me all that 'be careful shite' lol

No, you're right; how dare I proffer you advice about taking care what you post. You are a reactionary who posts anything that has a whiff of union bashing about it. The mere mention of ‘strike’ or ‘union hierarchy betrayal’ and you become positively orgasmic; I fear for your health should the Unite’s bus drivers and the RMT ever come out on strike together; your poor old heart won’t be able to take the ‘Big Bang’ orgasm you’ll have!

By the way scouring the internet for second-hand reports from meetings at a union you don’t belong to is not only sad, but it not really even proper research; is it?


As for the apology; why not take it out on my nose the next time we meet.

 

[durruti02]

from socilaist appeal

"By Rob Walsh, UNITE and Melanie MacDonad, BECTU (both personal capacity)
Thursday, 25 June 2009

mitie_demo_sunny_small.jpgAn attempt by Unite members to present the case of Justice for Cleaners activists who were sacked by the company Mitie after successfully campaigning for the living wage was ruled “out of order” at a meeting of 80 plus trade unionists in London on Thursday 18 June.

This shocking result occurred at the London and Eastern Regional meeting of the United Left, “the largest left organisation within the British and Irish trade union movement” which claims as its founding principles:
• A socialist political direction with a strong voice to stand up for working peoples’ interests at all levels including international.
• A fighting back industrial vision to win for and defend our members in the workplace.
• An organising agenda to grow and build union power amongst the unorganized.
The item under discussion was “Disputes” and Chair Jim Kelly had announced that he would take reports on the Visteon dispute, the case of Ford Cardiff Convenor Rob Williams, and the Bus workers’ pay campaign. When members asked for Alberto Durango from the Cleaners’ campaign to be allowed to address the meeting, the Chair said there would not be sufficient time as the room had to be vacated by 9:30pm. Many of those present protested, but were threatened with exclusion from the meeting if they continued.
The three reports were duly given, with a brief discussion after each one. As the Chair was announcing the next item, there was once again a call for Alberto to be heard. This time, the Chair said that the item could not be heard, as he had not been notified about it one week in advance! He referred to the supporters of the cleaners’ campaign as “some people who have come along to their first meeting of this organisation” – as if new members do not have the right to raise urgent issues and have them discussed!
Finally, a vote was forced. Facilitated by the presence of a large number of Unite full-time officials at the meeting, Alberto was silenced in a vote that upheld the Chair’s ruling by 39 votes to 28.
This set-back follows a letter issued by Asst. General Secretary Jack Dromey withdrawing official union support for the cleaners’ campaign for re-instatement. He claims that the union has assessed the details of the case, and they believe that the company Mitie and UNITE officials have done all that they can for the cleaners. The cleaners maintain that Mitie has misrepresented the facts and that the union should continue fighting for their interests.
The idea that the cleaners are mistaken about being victimised by the company is becoming less and less likely in light of the fact that 3 months into their weekly demonstrations in front of Willis insurance brokers and HBOS (sites where the cleaners worked) Alberto, was called in for a meeting by his employer Lancaster only to be met by immigration officials accompanied by police. He was arrested, hand-cuffed and his home searched. About ten hours later, for lack of evidence, he was released from the police station with a warning.
Cleaners who have fought for the London living wage with the Bloomsbury campaign have also been victimised. The company Office and General gave cleaners at UCL a letter stating that if they didn’t come to work the next morning with ID they would be subject to the authorities and immigration services.
Then there is the example of José Stalin Bermúdez, a UNISON branch chair and former cleaner at SOAS who was sacked under false pretenses by ISS after he helped cleaners fight against poverty pay. The battle was won but the effort of cleaners and students to stop SOAS from sub-contracting out the work altogether was met with a surprise early morning immigration raid on the very same day a rally was scheduled to take place in support of the re-instatement of Stalin. Nine cleaners, including one heavily pregnant cleaner were detained and three were deported immediately.
These are but a few examples of a stepped-up campaign by companies to get rid of fighting workers – by any means neccessary.
Yes, the cleaners are different, the unions are different, but the issue remains the same. Cleaners who fight to improve their conditions – eventually come under attack. This includes the Mitie cleaners.
Supporter of the Mitie cleaners, Labour MP John McDonnell said that the bosses were "waiting until the headline news about union recognition victories had passed before attacking key union organisers and activists. Workers such as those in the Justice for Cleaners campaign may well make gains and a large number thought that they had a victory, but employers haven't waited long before quietly trying to claw back what they had won."
So, we strongly urge UNITE officials to follow the lead of UNITE members like those in the London construction branch and give their full solidarity and concrete support for their fellow trade unionists.
Their campaign for full union support has gained other supporters like Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn, film-maker Ken Loach, Ford Vistion workers, and Jerry Hicks, the left candidate for General Secretary of Amicus UNITE, many of the main Latin American solidarity campaigns and trade unionists and activists.
mitie_edwin_fist_small.jpg

Please sign the online petition for full union support of the MITIE dispute at http://www.petitiononline.com/jobs4all/petition.html
And most importantly, please come to their weekly pickets:
The next one is tomorrow:

Friday 26 July

12;30 hours meet at the McDonalds at Liverpool Station

Then at 1:00 we will go to the nearby HBOS Building
(tube: Liverpool Street / Bank; bus 25)

or call Alberto at 07904329679

 

[Urbanblues]

from socilaist appeal

"By Rob Walsh, UNITE and Melanie MacDonad, BECTU (both personal capacity)
Thursday, 25 June 2009

mitie_demo_sunny_small.jpgAn attempt by Unite members to present the case of Justice for Cleaners activists who were sacked by the company Mitie after successfully campaigning for the living wage was ruled “out of order” at a meeting of 80 plus trade unionists in London on Thursday 18 June.

This shocking result occurred at the London and Eastern Regional meeting of the United Left, “the largest left organisation within the British and Irish trade union movement” which claims as its founding principles:
• A socialist political direction with a strong voice to stand up for working peoples’ interests at all levels including international.
• A fighting back industrial vision to win for and defend our members in the workplace.
• An organising agenda to grow and build union power amongst the unorganized.
The item under discussion was “Disputes” and Chair Jim Kelly had announced that he would take reports on the Visteon dispute, the case of Ford Cardiff Convenor Rob Williams, and the Bus workers’ pay campaign. When members asked for Alberto Durango from the Cleaners’ campaign to be allowed to address the meeting, the Chair said there would not be sufficient time as the room had to be vacated by 9:30pm. Many of those present protested, but were threatened with exclusion from the meeting if they continued.
The three reports were duly given, with a brief discussion after each one. As the Chair was announcing the next item, there was once again a call for Alberto to be heard. This time, the Chair said that the item could not be heard, as he had not been notified about it one week in advance! He referred to the supporters of the cleaners’ campaign as “some people who have come along to their first meeting of this organisation” – as if new members do not have the right to raise urgent issues and have them discussed!
Finally, a vote was forced. Facilitated by the presence of a large number of Unite full-time officials at the meeting, Alberto was silenced in a vote that upheld the Chair’s ruling by 39 votes to 28.
This set-back follows a letter issued by Asst. General Secretary Jack Dromey withdrawing official union support for the cleaners’ campaign for re-instatement. He claims that the union has assessed the details of the case, and they believe that the company Mitie and UNITE officials have done all that they can for the cleaners. The cleaners maintain that Mitie has misrepresented the facts and that the union should continue fighting for their interests.
The idea that the cleaners are mistaken about being victimised by the company is becoming less and less likely in light of the fact that 3 months into their weekly demonstrations in front of Willis insurance brokers and HBOS (sites where the cleaners worked) Alberto, was called in for a meeting by his employer Lancaster only to be met by immigration officials accompanied by police. He was arrested, hand-cuffed and his home searched. About ten hours later, for lack of evidence, he was released from the police station with a warning.
Cleaners who have fought for the London living wage with the Bloomsbury campaign have also been victimised. The company Office and General gave cleaners at UCL a letter stating that if they didn’t come to work the next morning with ID they would be subject to the authorities and immigration services.
Then there is the example of José Stalin Bermúdez, a UNISON branch chair and former cleaner at SOAS who was sacked under false pretenses by ISS after he helped cleaners fight against poverty pay. The battle was won but the effort of cleaners and students to stop SOAS from sub-contracting out the work altogether was met with a surprise early morning immigration raid on the very same day a rally was scheduled to take place in support of the re-instatement of Stalin. Nine cleaners, including one heavily pregnant cleaner were detained and three were deported immediately.
These are but a few examples of a stepped-up campaign by companies to get rid of fighting workers – by any means neccessary.
Yes, the cleaners are different, the unions are different, but the issue remains the same. Cleaners who fight to improve their conditions – eventually come under attack. This includes the Mitie cleaners.
Supporter of the Mitie cleaners, Labour MP John McDonnell said that the bosses were "waiting until the headline news about union recognition victories had passed before attacking key union organisers and activists. Workers such as those in the Justice for Cleaners campaign may well make gains and a large number thought that they had a victory, but employers haven't waited long before quietly trying to claw back what they had won."
So, we strongly urge UNITE officials to follow the lead of UNITE members like those in the London construction branch and give their full solidarity and concrete support for their fellow trade unionists.
Their campaign for full union support has gained other supporters like Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn, film-maker Ken Loach, Ford Vistion workers, and Jerry Hicks, the left candidate for General Secretary of Amicus UNITE, many of the main Latin American solidarity campaigns and trade unionists and activists.
mitie_edwin_fist_small.jpg

Please sign the online petition for full union support of the MITIE dispute at http://www.petitiononline.com/jobs4all/petition.html
And most importantly, please come to their weekly pickets:
The next one is tomorrow:

Friday 26 July

12;30 hours meet at the McDonalds at Liverpool Station

Then at 1:00 we will go to the nearby HBOS Building
(tube: Liverpool Street / Bank; bus 25)

or call Alberto at 07904329679

There you go again. Posting cancerous shit and lies. You just can't help yourself can you; fucking moron.

 

[Urbanblues]

I don't know what kind of meetings you used to attending durruti; but, whether it was as the Broad Left or now as the United Left we expect some respect for the position of Chair and for the person who is speaking at a given time.

On 18th June neither was given to either the Chair or to people who were trying to speak. Indeed, on three occasions as I began to make reports to the meeting my voice was overwhelmed by people who disagreed with the prevailing position.

It was on the third occasion that I’d been interrupted, by the way these breaches in procedure were not aimed at me personally, that the Chair said if there were any other disruptions he’d ask the disrupter to leave.

That’s hardly exclusion in the sense of the slanted report you’ve posted. How would you have conducted the meeting? Would you have allowed a minority of people who hadn’t got their way on the election of the United Left Officers Committee to try to shout and bully their point of view across to the majority?

Durriti, fuck off and sort out your own union. You are now seriously getting on my nerves you know-nothing-cunt.

 

[durruti02]

lol urbanblues .. what a baby you are .. have you noticed post 20 that i posted? it supports your position u donut! dear oh dear you really are such a child .. i do not agree or disagree with these posts u donut .. this is a discussion forum! the issue is this campaign .. these are posts from other forums about the campaign .. lol u just donlt get it do you??

can someone else please explain to UB that sometimes people in the real world will say things u do not think are right or have different opinions to you but once you leave your teenage years it is generally not done to call people " .. know-nothing-cunt" and accuse them of " ..Posting cancerous shit and lies." and it is simply cowardice to do this on the internet

and posts reported ..

 

[Urbanblues]

lol urbanblues .. what a baby you are .. have you noticed post 20 that i posted? it supports your position u donut! dear oh dear you really are such a child .. i do not agree or disagree with these posts u donut .. this is a discussion forum! the issue is this campaign .. these are posts from other forums about the campaign .. lol u just donlt get it do you??

can someone else please explain to UB that sometimes people in the real world will say things u do not think are right or have different opinions to you but once you leave your teenage years it is generally not done to call people " .. know-nothing-cunt" and accuse them of " ..Posting cancerous shit and lies." and it is simply cowardice to do this on the internet

and posts reported ..

Durruti, you’re a cipher, a know-nothing who posts other people’s views and ideas. You may believe that posting on issues you know nothing about is a legitimate use of the forum; but, it’s not. No, it shows you to be the knee-jerk reactionary tosser you undoubtedly are.

Nothing you post comes from you; you are incapable of original thoughts or ideas. By your own admission you cut and paste from other sources. You’re no better than a gossip; collecting tittle tattle and passing it on down the line.

You don’t check the shit you post for accuracy; you go trawling for anti trade union stories; and, then draw in your net and empty its unexamined contents onto U75.

As for me, I live in a world where people do have different opinions; and, most of the time I respect those differences. However, this is amongst people who argue and debate from their own point of view; not some cunt that spews out second-hand uncorroborated cancerous shit onto a site masquerading as informed discussion.

Finally, you who hide behind everyone else’s arguments call me a coward. Well mate, I’ve given you enough information about myself in the past few posts; you should have no problems identifying me at a trade union or movement event.

 

[durruti02]

oh shut up .. i started a thread on exploited migrant workers .. full stop .. 3 and a 1/2 months later you appear and say it is all 'cancerous lies' ( hey don't hold back mate) .. so i do some more research and post two comments from people who disagree with you, AND ONE WHO BACKS YOU UP .. you then send me an abusive PM

My name's [hidden by D02] and I'm neither a coward nor do I hide from anyone.

Who are you that posts such cancerous shit? You in the pay of someone. Because, from where I'm sitting reading the bollocks you post, you come across as a fucking scab plant.

Met you infiltrators during the 1970s; you were scum then; I doubt if things have changed since.

[name hidden by D02]

sorry you have got this badly badly wrong, unless your attempt is to bully those who have differrent views .. you simply do not get the point of U75 that if you do not like what someone writes you say differrent .. it is really really simple .. but you do not then attack that person for 'spreading cancerous lies' especially when they have agreed much of what you say sounds right! And that they have posted up the comments of someone who agrees with you!

I work in a company that employs migrant cleaners, and work with their stewards, so i am aware of how badly they are exploited. So I publicised JFC stuff before, and now this. As i said i suspect some of your suspicions are right about this particular group, but i assure you i have no axe to grind against Unite any more than against any one else.

However I also think you are extremely dogmatic, narrow minded and pretty arrogant and simply can't deal with things you disagree with or do not understand. How are we expected to change the world to a better place if people behave like you have done on this and the Visteon thread?

You owe me a serious apology"


i have reported the PM .. it is simply unacceptable that people behave like you do on here .. you have nmade your point about this campaign .. i have said i accept some of what you say and then posted up some comments for and against from other individuals .. if you wish to say more do so but do not threatern me

 

[Urbanblues]

There is nothing wrong in having a different point of view. For the most it greases the wheels that turn move these threads along. My objections have been, and are, people writing uncorroborated posts and passing them off as facts.

You have done this on a number of occasions. You’ve used second-hand information to report on the Visteon dispute; where, you claimed the Unite regional secretary bullied the occupiers, when the truth is he was exercising a duty of care to the occupiers, members of his region and union. Had he ignored this; and, had any of the occupiers ended up in jail, he would have been in dereliction of his duty as the lead FTO in the region.

You went on to criticize the assistance and resources that Unite put into the dispute. When the reality was the regional Chair along with the regional secretary were present at the site shortly after the dispute started; they had gone with a shopping list from the occupiers to a local supermarket and bought provisions ranging from food stuffs to camp beds. Further to this when the Regional Committee met we donated £10,000 to the dispute fund; as well as putting out an appeal to Branches – my own Branch, a fairly small cash poor group, donated £100; myself, someone who works part time, donated £50.

Then, by chance I happened to see your ‘sacked willis...’ thread, some 3½ months after it was initiated. Once again I read with incredulity you were posting on issues of which you appear to be clueless – you admit you’re clueless about venues; you go on to agree you’re ‘just disseminating stuff’.

In Message 7 you claim that Unite withdrew its support for the Mitie cleaners. This was not the case. But, did you attempt to check into the veracity of this claim? No, you didn’t; you carried on in your ‘if-it’s-having-a-pop-at-the-union-it’ll-serve-my-narrow-and-bigoted-agenda’ style of activism.

In Message 10, again you again admit “i really have no idea of details here ..” Facts and details are strangers to you, aren’t they, durrati? Why allow facts and details spoil a hastily put together piece of propaganda; why, that might even entail actually doing a bit of leg work; and, heaven forefend, an original thought may cross the firmament of what serves you as an imagination.

By Message 12, stumped by my detailed and researched account you then decide that I hadn’t responded quick enough to a thread I’d only learned of a few days before; thus, you begin to throw up smoke screens about me taking 3½ months to reply to the thread, etc.

Durrati, I wouldn’t mind if you’d learn a lesson now and then, but no; even after I give you as honest an account as I could glean, an account from members of the Branch in question, you come back more ill-informed rubbish.

You begin quoting nutters such as Gerry Downing at me about a meeting that you were not in attendance; a meeting which I did attend; not only attend but acted as scribe.

Durrati, it is not your place to post lies and propaganda; it is not your place to post about meetings as though you were present; and, it is not your place to judge the meetings of a sister union; especially in such a subjective manner.

Actually durrati, I’m in a fair bit of pain right now, so I’ll leave it there; but, I think I’ve made myself clear; and, as I’ve said in my PM, you now know who I am, so you’ve a distinct advantage.