russias savage treatment of the chechen muslims and the wests tacit approval

[butchersapron]

how long u think the mujahadeen would be able to stay in chechnya if they werent wanted, the turks and arabs been there years now, their married into the chechens, their seen as muslim brothers helping them against the russian oppressors.

Oh, they want people to come thousands of miles to tell them how to run their lifes, they couldn't manage to come up with their own culture, traditions and interprations of religion - they needed bunch of fanatics to come and do it for them. Of course what your sainted fighters are doing is imposing their own hardline interpretation on an area that has traditionally had a more liberal interpretation.

 

[dylanredefined]

no-ones gonna go chemical or nuclear when the other side can retaliate in kind

The only reason the russians haven't used a nuke in cheychna is probably couldn't find a target worth it .Huge nato task force turns up they would drop it in seconds .

 

[ViolentPanda]

how long u think the mujahadeen would be able to stay in chechnya if they werent wanted, the turks and arabs been there years now, their married into the chechens, their seen as muslim brothers helping them against the russian oppressors.

Have you ever been anywhere near the Caucasus, fattboy?
They'd be able to "stay in Chechnya" easily if they weren't wanted, in fact the same geography that gives the Chechen nationalists cover in and around Chechnya is what'd make it easy for any bunch of chancers to stay free.

 

[fattboy]

delete mujahadeen

insert russians

discuss

do u really believe chechens want to be a part of russia, yes or no?

 

[Fuchs66]

do u really believe chechens want to be a part of russia, yes or no?

Do you really believe they want to be part of a fundamentalist Islamic state?

Yes or no?

Maybe they have other choices

 

[fattboy]

Oh, they want people to come thousands of miles to tell them how to run their lifes, they couldn't manage to come up with their own culture, traditions and interprations of religion - they needed bunch of fanatics to come and do it for them. Of course what your sainted fighters are doing is imposing their own hardline interpretation on an area that has traditionally had a more liberal interpretation.

turkeys just a short hop across the border, jordan, saudi and kuwait where many others come from arent thousands of miles away wither, theyve far more in common with them than they have with russians thats for sure.

chechenia seems to have more than its fair share of sufis, many of them are the ppl collaborating with the russians, or at least incline to them out of emnity to salafis,reporting ppl who leave the masjid straight after the prayer to the kadyrovskis is something they are known to be doing, as they stay on and commit innovated practices afterwards that a muslim with correct aqeedah would refuse to partake in
i wouldnt so much call that a liberal interpretation, more like deviants and munafiqeen.

 

[butchersapron]

It's the bloody sufis fault. I knew it.

 

[fattboy]

Do you really believe they want to be part of a fundamentalist Islamic state?

Yes or no?

Maybe they have other choices

yes i do, there was peace between the first and second chechen war, no infighting took place between the ameerate and the other groups.

 

[fattboy]

Have you ever been anywhere near the Caucasus, fattboy?
They'd be able to "stay in Chechnya" easily if they weren't wanted, in fact the same geography that gives the Chechen nationalists cover in and around Chechnya is what'd make it easy for any bunch of chancers to stay free.

no, only fairly recently have they been confined to the mountains, before that they walked the streets and slept in townhouses, moved in and out of dagesthan, pretty much went where they wanted to.
the ameerate fighters are 'wet skins', they cant easily assimilate into the local population unlike nationalist born chechens because their black, arab grow their beards etc.so they couldnt move round like this if they werent well supported.

 

[butchersapron]

You're a very well informed young man fattboy.

 

[fattboy]

The only reason the russians haven't used a nuke in cheychna is probably couldn't find a target worth it .Huge nato task force turns up they would drop it in seconds .

theyve got conventional weapons that are as powerful as nuclear warheads, ie.the vacuum bomb, which theyve already used against the chechens, why would they go nuclear on their own doorstep, it would never go nuclear, and to suggest theyd use it against anyone whos got nukes as well is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Fuchs66]

theyve got conventional weapons that are as powerful as some extremely small tactical nuclear warheads, ie.the vacuum bomb, which theyve already used against the chechens as US forces have used similar since Vietnam, why would they go nuclear on their own doorstep,
not stopped them before Semipalatinsk Test Site, Kazakhstan
http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/Russia/Sovwpnprog.html
it would never go nuclear, and to suggest theyd use it against anyone whos got nukes as well is absolutely ridiculous. if backed into a corner I believe they would use every means possible

Just a couple of added comments

 

[likesfish]

there not exactly casualty adverse
probably you would get prosecuted for the masscare in iraq the marines did.
but only for slacking comrade there are witness's and buildings still standing your a disgrace to the glorious russian army
now go back and kill everybody

 

[fattboy]

innit, this russian officer raped and killed an 18 year old chechen girl and he got promoted afterwards, even when he finally got charged, because of the uproar that was caused when 9 russian OMON officers were executed by Shamil Basayev because russia refused an offer of an exchange for the murdering rapist scumbag, hes pretty much considered a hero by the russians, thats the kind of ppl the chechens are dealing with.

 

[Fuchs66]

Thing is Fattboy I dont think you'll find anyone on this site supporting what the Russians are doing in Chechnya, you're preaching to the converted there, the thing is most if not all are highly sceptical of the alternative you are supporting.

 

[fattboy]

Thing is Fattboy I dont think you'll find anyone on this site supporting what the Russians are doing in Chechnya, you're preaching to the converted there, the thing is most if not all are highly sceptical of the alternative you are supporting.

yeah because they getting fed a load of rubbish about baby eating muslims

 

[likesfish]

NO because Russia is tooled up to fuck doesn't give a shit what the rest of the world thinks and also supply's all our gas.
the veto on security council is just the icing on the cake
short of the UN producing a clone army from somewhere theres nobody who can effectively stop the Russians.
NO western Nation is going to offer any sort of covert aid either
A) the cold war is over
B) Muslim fighters after 9/11 can go hang
C) the Russians think its part of Russia so they will hold it at all costs

 

[Fuchs66]

yeah because they getting fed a load of rubbish about baby eating muslims

Absolute crap.

 

[zoltan]

innit, this russian officer raped and killed an 18 year old chechen girl and he got promoted afterwards, even when he finally got charged, because of the uproar that was caused when 9 russian OMON officers were executed by Shamil Basayev because russia refused an offer of an exchange for the murdering rapist scumbag, hes pretty much considered a hero by the russians, thats the kind of ppl the chechens are dealing with.

Please stop using Chechen:Muslim as interchangeables

it makes a mockery of whatever point you are trying to push

Whatever is going on in the caucuses & whatever abuses are taking place, it is NOT an anti Muslim programme.

 

[Fuchs66]

Please stop using Chechen:Muslim as interchangeables

it makes a mockery of whatever point you are trying to push

Whatever is going on in the caucuses & whatever abuses are taking place, it is NOT an anti Muslim programme.

Although playing the Jihad card meant that the Russians could play the Islamic terrorist card allowing them to crack down even harder claiming to be part of the war on terror and making it more difficult for other nations to critise their actions.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's the bloody sufis fault. I knew it.

Pathetic, isn't it?

Especially given how long the predominantly Sufi Central Asians held out against the Soviets after the October revolution. 12 years it took, to suppress them, where the Sunnis of the Caucasus had folded by 1919.

Anti-Sufism is pretty much a stock-in-trade of the current crop of Wahhabi, Deobandis and Khalifate-wishers, though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

no, only fairly recently have they been confined to the mountains, before that they walked the streets and slept in townhouses, moved in and out of dagesthan, pretty much went where they wanted to.
the ameerate fighters are 'wet skins', they cant easily assimilate into the local population unlike nationalist born chechens because their black, arab grow their beards etc.so they couldnt move round like this if they werent well supported.

You've watched too many Jihadi videos.
Most non-black African Muslims can assimilate easily. Chechnya, like almost every other nation-state in the Caucasus, isn't ethnically-homogeneous, it's a blend of dozens of different ethnicities, from Anatolians, Arabs, Azeris, Circassians, Nogay, Persians, Rus and Turkmen to name but a few.

 

[ViolentPanda]

innit, this russian officer raped and killed an 18 year old chechen girl and he got promoted afterwards, even when he finally got charged, because of the uproar that was caused when 9 russian OMON officers were executed by Shamil Basayev because russia refused an offer of an exchange for the murdering rapist scumbag, hes pretty much considered a hero by the russians, thats the kind of ppl the chechens are dealing with.

"Considered a hero by the Russians"?
Would those be the same Russians who were so shocked and horrified when Anna Politkovskaya published details of the case in the Russian press, or are referring to the Russian military considering him to be a hero?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Please stop using Chechen:Muslim as interchangeables

it makes a mockery of whatever point you are trying to push

Whatever is going on in the caucuses & whatever abuses are taking place, it is NOT an anti Muslim programme.

I've already made this point twice.

He doesn't appear willing to "take it on board".

 

[Donna Ferentes]

You've watched too many Jihadi videos.
Most non-black African Muslims can assimilate easily. Chechnya, like almost every other nation-state in the Caucasus, isn't ethnically-homogeneous, it's a blend of dozens of different ethnicities, from Anatolians, Arabs, Azeris, Circassians, Nogay, Persians, Rus and Turkmen to name but a few.

If you did that last line without looking it up then I'm not unimpressed.

Isn't a Circassian what Peter O'Toole pretends to be in Lawrence of Arabia?

 

[ViolentPanda]

If you did that last line without looking it up then I'm not unimpressed.

I did some research on relict Jew and Christian enclaves in the Caucasus and Central Asia back in the 90s. Combine that with my odd long-term memory (which probably compensates for my appalling short-term memory) and it wasn't difficult to remember a handful of the dozens of ethnic groupings.

Isn't a Circassian what Peter O'Toole pretends to be in Lawrence of Arabia?

I don't know, I'm ashamed to say I've never seen the film.

 

[poului]

refrddrrdrthd45

Why is he called "fattboy" anyhow?...

 

[zoltan]

Why is he called "fattboy" anyhow?...

cos someone else had already registered the name "ignorantwatboy"

 

[fattboy]

No, however well-meant, the advice sucked - women are not ''gold'' or ''pearls''to be owned by men; they are warm, living, breathing people who can make their own decisions about how they dress. And Leila Ali looked wonderful on Dancing with the stars, in which she came third, in beautiful dresses and she also looks fabulous smashing her opponents in the ring, wearing sportswear. She is a graceful, healthy woman and I am in favour of her wearing whatever the hell she wants when she dances, when she fights and when she prays and when she goes about her ordinary life.

watch this

 

[Roadkill]

I'm looking forward to fattboy's banning I'm not sure at this point whether it will be for anti-semitism, mysogyny or more generalised stupid bigotry, but since he's walking a very fine line on all three on this thread (and every other place he posts) I think it's only a matter of time

Tbh I'm finding it grimly fascinating.