russias savage treatment of the chechen muslims and the wests tacit approval

[frogwoman]

in the old days england used to pride itself on defending the underdogs, shame theyve become such a bunch of punks.

What old days were these, fattboy?

 

[fattboy]

Basically yes unfortunatly .What reason should the west intervene could it possible work .Or would the west be seen as another interferying foriegn army ?

since when has that perception been a problem

 

[fattboy]

What old days were these, fattboy?

when they actually had some morals, say about 100+ years ago, before they sold out to herzl and his cronies

 

[frogwoman]

Erm you do see why invading a country with a large stock of nuclear and chemical weapons, and a willingness to use them, might be a small problem

 

[butchersapron]

Also, these brave mujahadeen are terrorising many communities in the county they've decided to travel thousands oif miles to fight in, imposing their own strict interpretation of sharia and killing and torturing those who resist.

Is this acceptable to you fattboy?

 

[fattboy]

What do we want?

UK troops out of Afghanisatan and Iraq and into Checnya!

When do we want it?

As soon as logistically possible and we've made the neccesary defences for the continent wide war that will follow

so its ok to go to war for your ideals as long as theyre not likely to hit u back.how noble.

 

[fattboy]

Also, these brave mujahadeen are terrorising many communities in the county they've decided to tracel thousands oif miles to fight in, imposing their own strict interpretation of sharia and killing and torturing those who resist. Is this acceptable to you fattboy?

thats crap, and u know it

 

[frogwoman]

when they actually had some morals, say about 100+ years ago, before they sold out to herzl and his cronies

ahh, so when they were killing loads of people in india (some of whom were even muslim) and fighting a war in china for who got to control the drug supply, or forcing kids as young as 5 to go and sweep chimneys, then ...

 

[fattboy]

Erm you do see why invading a country with a large stock of nuclear and chemical weapons, and a willingness to use them, might be a small problem

no-ones gonna go chemical or nuclear when the other side can retaliate in kind

 

[butchersapron]

when they actually had some morals, say about 100+ years ago, before they sold out to herzl and his cronies

Wow, you really do not know your history do you? Give us some examples of this fine moral standing up for the underdog behaviour then.

 

[frogwoman]

so you don't think, that if part of russia's territory was invaded (because chechnya is part of russia) they wouldn't want to use every method at their disposal to try and repel the attack?

that's one of the main reasons why they're fighting this war, they're terrified of secession by chechnya and a wave of other territories which aren't fond of being under russian rule, following suit

 

[Fuchs66]

yeah, im not saying he was blameless, but ive yet to hear of him or any mujahadeen raping men and women in a field.

id have Shamil Basayev any day over those sick twisted spetznaz bastards

Hmmm well I haven't found anything about "mujahadeen" rapes but I must say the victim care seems to be lacking and borders on a crime in itself.

But families of rape survivors in Chechnya are more concerned about the severe consequences survivors face within the Chechen culture. The Human Rights Watch explained that in addition to the mental and physical trauma of the rape itself, unmarried women who had been raped are unlikely to get married while married ones are likely to be divorced by their husbands. Chechnya's Muslim culture and national traditions strictly regulate relations between women and men, and inappropriate behavior is subject to severe and often violent sanctions.

http://www.peacewomen.org/news/Chechnya/newsarchive/banishment.html

 

[butchersapron]

thats crap, and u know it

I've seen film of them going around smashing shops that sold alcohol and various other things that they dissaproved of and beating women. Why does it shock you that people prepared to put their lifes in the line in what they see as defence of their lifes would have strong religious views?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

It is really about oil and gas. The Russians want to control it and Chechen independence would prevent that.

more to the point it's all about British Gas or at least British Gas pipelines (BGP).

When Chechen independnace was first mooted in modern times after the break up of the USSR, BGP advised Russia it would pull all it's subsidies from Russia and give them directly to Chechnya if Russia allowed the seperation. They also warned that russia would then be charged higher premiums to ship their gas/oil via these pipelines via and third party contry. In addition they advised that any extra taxation would be charged directly back to Russia.

In effect making it economically impossible for Russia to ever allow independance because it couldn't afford the fall out...

 

[fattboy]

so you don't think, that if part of russia's territory was invaded (because chechnya is part of russia) they wouldn't want to use every method at their disposal to try and repel the attack?

that's one of the main reasons why they're fighting this war, they're terrified of secession by chechnya and a wave of other territories which aren't fond of being under russian rule, following suit

they would never just use chemical or nuclear weapons like that, its a ridiculous assumption.

russia needs to deal with it, because chechens are completely different from russians, culturally and religiously, chechens dont want them there.
its unfair to compare chechnya to other ethnically russian groups of ppl.

 

[Fuchs66]

when they actually had some morals, say about 100+ years ago, before they sold out to herzl and his cronies

You mean when we had an empire that included what is now Pakistan?

 

[fattboy]

I've seen film of them going around smashing shops that sold alcohol and various other things that they dissaproved of and beating women. Why does it shock you that people prepared to put their lifes in the line in what they see as defence of their lifes would have strong religious views?

thats not the same as killing and torturing, got a link?

 

[butchersapron]

they would never just use chemical or nuclear weapons like that, its a ridiculous assumption.

russia needs to deal with it, because chechens are completely different from russians, culturally and religiously, chechens dont want them there.
its unfair to compare chechnya to other ethnically russian groups of ppl.

So there'd only be a massive ground war with the US/UK on one side and Russia and china on the other and enrgy supplies to western europe cut off. Glad to see you've thought this through. Was worried for a minute there.

 

[fattboy]

So there'd only be a massive ground war with the US/UK on one side and Russia and china on the other. Glad to see you've thought this through. Was worried for a minute there.

why cant they impose sactions?

 

[butchersapron]

thats not the same as killing and torturing, got a link?

Hang on, so you accept that they do this (i.e smash up shops that sell booze etc)? And you have no problem with it?

 

[Fuchs66]

why cant they impose sactions?

because the "counter sanctions" gas and oil would cripple Europe. Sanctions are only a tool if you have the larger lever.

 

[fattboy]

Hang on, so you accept that they do this (i.e smash up shops that sell booze etc)? And you have no problem with it?

i reckon ppl living in area where Islamic courts have jurusdiction probably know they shouldnt be selling booze.

 

[butchersapron]

why cant they impose sactions?

On Russia? Because of the oil/gas/petrodollars that the US relies on/markets and cheap labour for starters.

 

[Fuchs66]

i reckon ppl living in area where Islamic courts have jurusdiction probably know they shouldnt be selling booze.

but they dont.

 

[butchersapron]

i reckon ppl living in area where Islamic courts have jurusdiction probably know they shouldnt be selling booze.

I reckon people travelling thousands of mles to impose their own rule on others is something that both the russians and the mujahadeen appear to have in common.

 

[frogwoman]

On Russia? Because of the oil/gas/petrodollars that the US relies on/markets and cheap labour for starters.

erm, you do remember when russia cut gas off to some eastern european countries a couple of years ago, and hundreds of people died??

 

[fattboy]

I reckon people travelling thousands of mles to impose their own rule on others is something that both the russians and the mujahadeen appear to have in common.

how long u think the mujahadeen would be able to stay in chechnya if they werent wanted, the turks and arabs been there years now, their married into the chechens, their seen as muslim brothers helping them against the russian oppressors.

 

[fattboy]

but they dont.

well they must be a bunch of idiots then

 

[Fuchs66]

well they must be a bunch of idiots then

oh must apologise I didn't make it clear, I meant they dont live in a country where Islamic/Sharia courts have jurisdiction in any legal sense. A kangaroo court is a kangaroo court no matter what lable it gets given and no real difference from Russian soldiers setting up their courts for prisoners IMO.

 

[Fuchs66]

how long u think the mujahadeen would be able to stay in chechnya if they werent wanted, the turks and arabs been there years now, their married into the chechens, their seen as muslim brothers helping them against the russian oppressors.

delete mujahadeen

insert russians

discuss