Russia/the ex USSR: Situation beter now or then?

[Idris2002]

Surely not - the Russian empire was a few tiny islands of industrialisation in a vast sea of peasantry and pre-capitalist production.

Yes and no. As I understand it the countryside had been heavily penetrated by capitalism and market relations.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

A friend has just come back from working in Rumania. He said the thing that struck him most wasn't the pasty-faced, threadbare nature of most of the population living alongside the worst excesses of capitalism (casinos, the sex industry), but the way young people referred to "the revolution" and the older ones to "the so-called revolution".

That's an interesting observation.

I think it's all about job security. When you're younger, it's not so important: you haven't got a family to look after, you can drop everything and travel, you don't worry so much about having permanent accommodation. So (unless you're really struggling, in fall-through-the-cracks trouble) the accelerated free market doesn't seem such a bad place, provided there are jobs about. It's when you're older, with family and commitments, that the demerits of insecuirty in employment start to loom very large.

I think this is possibly related to why it's so hard to get younger people in this country interested in trades unions.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes and no. As I understand it the countryside had been heavily penetrated by capitalism and market relations.

That's pretty much the opposite of the historical consensus.

 

[Idris2002]

*wonders if he should back slowly out of thread, hoping no one will spot him*

It depends what you mean by heavily penetrated. . . those islands of industrialism would have had (I'm guessing) quite a few workers who were recent migrants from the countryside, who would have been sending remittances back to their villages. Again I'm guessing on that one but that's the experience of most newly industrialising societies.

Maybe I was incorrect to speak of a restoration of capitalism. . . but if consumer capitalism is an even more recent innovation than I thought, maybe the yuppies are right to fear a restoration of Soviet power, or at least a popular backlash of some sort.

*hopes none of his Russian colleagues spot this thread*

 

[Ryazan]

ryan, 'neo nazi feminists'? Come on, thats like an ice fire.

http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/7279-13.cfm

Plus you were the one who referred to the NBP as commienazis.

 

[JWH]

those islands of industrialism would have had (I'm guessing) quite a few workers who were recent migrants from the countryside, who would have been sending remittances back to their villages. Again I'm guessing on that one but that's the experience of most newly industrialising societies...

Mnaaaahhhh, this isn't Ghana in the 1960s or anything! We're talking about Moscow, St Pete and a handful of other towns that had any factories, and then a few railway and mine workers in a gigaaaaaaaaaaantic country (sparsely populated, to be fair). That's why the Russian Revolution "shouldn't have happened".

Even now you can travel not far from Moscow (in some cases, a couple of hundred metres from the ring road) and find whole villages that don't have running water. There are pretty large swathes of the country in which most exchanges don't take place in cash. (Don't know St Pete very well at all).

I'm sure that someone with better references/links than me would be to give more factual info.

 

[oisleep]

light relief

 

[JWH]

(OK, enough pictures!)

maybe the yuppies are right to fear a restoration of Soviet power, or at least a popular backlash of some sort.

I don't think anyone is worried about either of these things: a "redistribution of property" among the elite and increasing state intervention (soft fascist corporatism - well, without the TUs?) is one thing, but there's no chance of Soviet return. Equally, I doubt there's much chance of any popular backlash in view of the weakness of political opposition - at worst, Moscow becomes Johannesburg where parts of town just go apeshit and you can't drive your BMW through certain neighbourhoods at night. I guess you could say the same thing about parts of Russia that are already like that - K-B, Krasnodar, Ingushetia...

BTW, I've just realised the poll doesn't have a "capitalist - then" option.

 

[Ryazan]

[

She's alright.

 

[Ryazan]

(OK, enough pictures!)

I don't think anyone is worried about either of these things: a "redistribution of property" among the elite and increasing state intervention (soft fascist corporatism - well, without the TUs?) is one thing, but there's no chance of Soviet return. Equally, I doubt there's much chance of any popular backlash in view of the weakness of political opposition - at worst, Moscow becomes Johannesburg where parts of town just go apeshit and you can't drive your BMW through certain neighbourhoods at night. I guess you could say the same thing about parts of Russia that are already like that - K-B, Krasnodar, Ingushetia...

BTW, I've just realised the poll doesn't have a "capitalist - then" option.

Ryazan is fairly dodgy. in the housing district my gf's family live at, in some parts the street lights don't work. It is just blackness, and walking though at night can be pretty scary with young inebriated lads making a nuisance of themselves.

 

[Ryazan]

now this girl is a bit more swp style. How long before they kill her for having trotskyist hair?

I think Our Leader has got that one cornered.

http://nbp-info.ru/new/photo/010505_vozh/04.htm

 

[likesfish]

the soviet union had been a dead man walking for years.
I doubt it could be reformed the simple administration that needs to have like a state needs income so taxes have to be collected etc etc. there needs to be commerical law title deeds etc etc. one slight problem nobody in goverment knew dick about econmics or law or freedom of the press so when the shit hit the fan the whole system collapsed

 

[Ryazan]

Not according to these fellas.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Ryazan is fairly dodgy.

Yes he is!

Oh...

But seriously, respect to your knowledge of russia ryan - you were right there. I don't really know what to call the NBP: They are nazis i guess, national socialists. They are nationalist and racist and socialist: nazis.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Not according to these fellas.

who are they? And whats their take on why the soviet union collapsed?

 

[Ryazan]

Avanguard Kransaoi Molodyozhi.

Vanguard of Red Youth. Independant Marxist outfit. "Revisionism" amongst other things caused the collapse of the Soviet Union. Seeks to end external debt, and focus money on things like free higher education. Popular among poor students, as there are many over there. They have cooperated with the National Bolsheviks on actions in Russia for prtoests and such like. My gf made me aware of them, altough she isn't involved with anything like that.

As for the NBP. They aren't Nazis, if that word is to be understood in it's original context. I am sure many Nazbols are extremely nationalist, and the dream of creating some kind of Eurasian empire is probably still in the minds of some. Their focus on the views of superiority regarding the Russian language, it's history and culture is quite scary, seen as if their dreams of power would come true then any national minority aspirations to seperate from this new Russian empire would be according to their programme be ruthlessly surpressed. I don't think there is any set ideology at the moment among the rank and file, and it has attracted people from different politcal backgrounds frustrated with their impotence poltically in Putin's Russia.

As for their views now I am not quite sure. Eurasianism is their main goal long term, but how they see that I do not know.

http://evrazia.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1884

The flag of thier party is both an ironic joke and is supposed to signify some kind of practical and temporary union of extreme nationalism and "socialist" ideology to rid the kind of Russian government since Yeltsin. Nationalism in order to bring back some kind of mythical pride in the authority and superioty of the Russian people and nation above all overs, to end immigration, although they do not blame immigrants themselves for social problems (apparently *with tongue in cheek*). To end capitalism and replace it with something not clearly defined by them. "Beyond the Left and the Right". It is confusing, as I first thought the National Bolsheviks were wanting to further a renewal of Socialism in One Country along Stalinist lines.

My respect for the Nazbols only begins and ends abruptly because of their balls (usually kids) doing direct actions in protest against some serious injusitices in Russia, and have paid with severe prison terms. But as for highlighting the harsh reality of Russian life, fine, but their weird and chauvinistic views make me feel very uneasy. Limonov just comes across like some vain ass.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Thank you Ryan.

Very well put Understand it a lot better now. Well, undersatand the confusion around it a lot better now if you see what i mean. The idea that the symbol of their group actually be ironic is very weird, beyond anything a left group i have ver known to do. i also thought they were just stalinists from their propaganda posters - stuff like kruschkev sucking off uncle sam and being a sell out.

I believe the Nazbols have been described as anarchists too, confusingly, in the past, and possibly are a kind of anarcho-fascist group - they do exist - whilst proper anarchists actually firebombed their offices a year or so ago.

One thing is not disputed: Their Combat Girlfriends, Are Fit.

 

[Ryazan]

Our Combat Girlfriends.

What is a proper anarchist?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

they are our combat girlfriends now?

A proper anarchist is not one who believe in any form of racilaism or nationalism. It has been suggested that the NBP consider themselves to be some sort of anarchists like some odd ex NF bloke considers himself to be an anarchist in the uk too. National Anarchists... Very odd shit.

A proper anarchist is one who fits something like this descriptionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist#Modern_anarchism

 

[Ryazan]

Was this NF bloke influenced by Junger?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

i don't know. His name is troy southgate and he is mainly influenced by his own pretentiousness. Google him he has a stupid site for other self obsessed racist pseudo intellectuals. Look ryan i don't really know wtf national anarchism is or wtf about its proponents, just someone said the nazbols were a 'brown black' fascist group last year...

so i'm going to shut up now.

 

[Ryazan]

Then why mention him, apart to add to confusion?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

thats easy

to illustrate the point that there were such things as National Anarchists, or a brown/black alliance.

Even though, as i have stressed, they are not anarchists in any meaningful way.

Thank you and good night

 

[Ryazan]

You have not explianed to me in your own words, with your own thoughts, what a "proper" anarchist is.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

well fuck i thought you might read up a litle bit!

never mind. I'll buy you a book at the bookfair - in russian if you like

 

[\\-(*o*)-//]

How is the anarchism movement going in Russia and how does it help the people in powelessness and poverty? l'udi bez l'ubogo pon'atiya ikh sovremennogo polozheniya ve rabstve (sarkazm, yesli vy perevodite).