ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
As do the interventions and insinuations into the Central Asian states, and the overtures to Ukraine.
Russia Invading Georgia
- Thread starter mears
- Start date
'zackly
As I said, Im not conspiracy thyeory devotee & know its probabaly not part of a secret US plan for ( a more complete ) world domination. but its hardly going to broker the peace in these pre-pubescent states either
I do wonder what has been whispered to the Georgians from their American backers to give them the confidence to declare war ?
Russia just get can't let go of the crown jewel. Its always been so easy for Russia to pick on such a rump of a country, whether in Tsarist times or during the Soviet Unions existence, Russia has always tried to dominate Georgia.
And the boys around here know all this beacuse they are so well versed in the history of the region
Russia should spend its oil money on something a little more productive.
And the boys around here know all this beacuse they are so well versed in the history of the region
Russia should spend its oil money on something a little more productive.
Yeah, perhaps a missile defence shield - that would be money well spent.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Didn't South Ossetia vote for independence a few years back? Russia and Georgia are both historically bad states but every nation must have the right to self-determination.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Georgia isn't "the crown jewel" in any empire, let alone Russia's. "Crown of thorns", perhaps.
Georgia was a convenient trans-shipment point to places like Baku, Turkey and Iran, that's about all.
Because of what it provides easy access to, and generally under the excuse of "protecting Russian nationals". That particular ruse has been used for at least 150 years.
Perhaps "the boys round here" are a little better-informed than yourself, perhaps a few of them even live or have relatives in former Soviet states?And the boys around here know all this beacuse they are so well versed in the history of the region
Like buying consumer shit from the US, perhaps?
So anyway, what do you know about the history of Georgia, mears (by which I mean knowledge that hasn't come from google or an "Economist" article, obviously)?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Russia just get can't let go of the crown jewel. Its always been so easy for Russia to pick on such a rump of a country, whether in Tsarist times or during the Soviet Unions existence, Russia has always tried to dominate Georgia.
And the boys around here know all this beacuse they are so well versed in the history of the region
Russia should spend its oil money on something a little more productive.
Risible.
All America all the time.
Very little, Georgia wants to use the west to keep away Russia from dominating their country and they have for hundreds of years. The US has a couple hundred soldiers in Georgia.
But its really not about ther US is it, restoring the Russian empire, not giving up the dream of Russian imperialism is more about the Russians than the Yanks.
Maybe do a little research and find you may discover how Moscow supports the rebels in Ossetia.
And then of course there's the small matter of an oil pipeline that supplies the west running through the region...
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Energy plays a big part no doubt. But Russia dominated Georgia long before any pipeline was built.
Russia just considers Georgia part of the Russian empire that expired (tragically if you listen to Putin) with the demise of the Soviet Union.
Russia has a little cash now thanks to oil, and they can now regain what they feel is Russia's backyard.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's not "just" about anything, it's about the fact that without a Russia-aligned Georgia, Russian regimes/empires of the last 2 centuries would have had a much harder job facilitating the smooth running of those regimes/empires. It's not about "considering" Georgia to be part of the Russian empire, it's about needing Georgia to be aligned to Russian interests.
Simpleton.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
Crude but effective
Though the Ruskies excuse has a certain unfortunate resemblence to the Nazi "defence" of the Sudaten Germans its more likely a reaction to the loss of its onetime Warsaw pact allies to Nato and the apparent keen uptake by those ex allies to the idea of a "missile defence system" supossedly designed to inderdict Iranian missiles (about as likely really as the Japanese seeding California with anthrax via modified weather balloons near the close of WW2) that the Pentagon claims are soon to rain down on Europe.
If Georgia joined NATO then Moscow face encirclement - they have had something similar before, the Cuban missile crisis was caused by the US stationing nuclear armed ICBMs in Turkey if you recall - though all mention of the correlation and subsequent removal of the US missiles was suppressed at the time - look where that nearly got us.
Thats the fear part of it
Its then got the "show them me are no longer so weak, make em think twice" macho man element
I would not be surprised to see Georgia either being wholly invaded or so cowed that it reverts to Russian stooge fairly quickly. Its location luckily prevents some US inspired "liberation"
Though the Ruskies excuse has a certain unfortunate resemblence to the Nazi "defence" of the Sudaten Germans its more likely a reaction to the loss of its onetime Warsaw pact allies to Nato and the apparent keen uptake by those ex allies to the idea of a "missile defence system" supossedly designed to inderdict Iranian missiles (about as likely really as the Japanese seeding California with anthrax via modified weather balloons near the close of WW2) that the Pentagon claims are soon to rain down on Europe.
If Georgia joined NATO then Moscow face encirclement - they have had something similar before, the Cuban missile crisis was caused by the US stationing nuclear armed ICBMs in Turkey if you recall - though all mention of the correlation and subsequent removal of the US missiles was suppressed at the time - look where that nearly got us.
Thats the fear part of it
Its then got the "show them me are no longer so weak, make em think twice" macho man element
I would not be surprised to see Georgia either being wholly invaded or so cowed that it reverts to Russian stooge fairly quickly. Its location luckily prevents some US inspired "liberation"
The UK press coverage of this is ridiculous. Anyone would think the Russians were the aggressors. But in fact Georgia launched an unprovoked invasion of a territory in which the vast majority of the people consider themselves Russian. I hope the Russians teach them a lesson.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
For Georgia attack read US proxy attack.
Who else agrees with this?
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Well - Georgia DID launch an attack on South Ossetia - clearly as part of a strategy to counter russian influence in thes area. They seemed to have (foolishly)banked on the fact that Russia wouldn't dare intevene agaisnt a US ally.
So a Russian military repsonse is probably justifiable. However what is actually happening is the Russians are using it as a great opportunity to punish a troublesome breakaway republic. Effectivaly they are doing to Georgia what Georgia tried to do to South Ossetia.
So yeah - the media coverage - and the huffing and puffing from the US/uk about Russian aggession is ridiculoulsy simplistic (and totalyl hypocritical).
Its a proxy confllict between the US and Russia over control of a strategically vital region with thousands of civillians caught in the crossfire.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I kind of agree, this was the US egging the Georgians on, encouraged by the US the Georgians gambled and the Russians called their bluff. Although it's an easy trick to hand out lots of Russian passports etc, at the end of the day the Russians staked their claim on SO by non-violent means, whereas the Georgians actually invaded and occupied the place.
Ok, if you want to play rough, say the Russians, we can play rough, and rough they are most certainly now playing. I have little sympathy for the Georgian government, the Americanized accent of their foreign minister(?) says it all really, the yanks are being very 'cheeky' indeed with the way they've behaved but was Georgia really stupid enough to think anyone would kick-off a nuclear war because they want SO? Fucking idiots, I bet they do, I bet they seriously did think the NATO countires would threaten to intervene militarily after their gambit failed. I would hope Russia breaks Georgian aspirations in the region once and for all too, if it wasn't for (as usual) the hundreds and thousands of civilians on all sides (well, not American civilians obviously) who are now suffering as a result of this war.
In the long run it would be better if Georgia is made firmly a Russian vassal again, if an independant Georgia is going to be a loose canon member of NATO and American stooge looking to destablize the region and make the world a more dangerous place for everyone, then I'd far rather it were a Russian vassal. Optimal would be an independant Georgia that isn't anyone's stooge and didn't feel it would gain anything by invading regions that want to break away (as did it) or joining that expensive gun-club in the first place.
Russias big and mean enough to take care of itself, but I agree the BBC point of view is definately toss.
Ok, if you want to play rough, say the Russians, we can play rough, and rough they are most certainly now playing. I have little sympathy for the Georgian government, the Americanized accent of their foreign minister(?) says it all really, the yanks are being very 'cheeky' indeed with the way they've behaved but was Georgia really stupid enough to think anyone would kick-off a nuclear war because they want SO? Fucking idiots, I bet they do, I bet they seriously did think the NATO countires would threaten to intervene militarily after their gambit failed. I would hope Russia breaks Georgian aspirations in the region once and for all too, if it wasn't for (as usual) the hundreds and thousands of civilians on all sides (well, not American civilians obviously) who are now suffering as a result of this war.
In the long run it would be better if Georgia is made firmly a Russian vassal again, if an independant Georgia is going to be a loose canon member of NATO and American stooge looking to destablize the region and make the world a more dangerous place for everyone, then I'd far rather it were a Russian vassal. Optimal would be an independant Georgia that isn't anyone's stooge and didn't feel it would gain anything by invading regions that want to break away (as did it) or joining that expensive gun-club in the first place.
Russias big and mean enough to take care of itself, but I agree the BBC point of view is definately toss.
david dissadent
New Member
Russia invaded a soverign nation without UN approval. This is the same war crime that everyone complains the UK \US commited in Iraq.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I agree, the cost of this kind of adventurism is never payed by the arschlochs that start it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Sorry dude, didn't realise I was parroting
No problem, mears just dismisses anything that doesn't conform to his narrow world-view anyway!
Yes, this is my reading of the situation. And I think it is fair to say that this is a battle over spheres of influence in which the US is not an innocent bystander.
However, the relentless bombing of civilians by Russia is a war crime of significant proportions (although not as costly in terms of human lives as the UK/US invasion of Iraq or of Afghanistan.)
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