Rush The Bank! Thurs 5th March! RBS! 1pm! Bishopsgate!

[cesare]

Were you? Sorry then. I thought something else. Apols.

Yep, I was, genuinely. I gave my bank a right piece of my mind on Thursday ... to the point where I felt obliged to ring the woman back on Friday and apologise. I've been planning what to say to my MP as well, cos I feel particularly strongly about the pressure they put my bank under to take on all that fucking HBOS millstone.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

So we can look forward to whatever alternatives you, and whoever you work with, have to offer then, can we?

If you don't have anything better to offer, then why sneer and snipe at those who actually get up and do something, pray tell?

and what precisely are they getting up and doing?

don't lets' fool ourselves into thinking this apologist action will do anything other than allow the status quo to remain presicely as i had been ad infinitum...

this is controlled dissent nothing more. it's a placibo for real action...

 

[butchersapron]

and so th elinked in campgine behind this would be ...

Sorry garf doesn't have to work like that. We're on about something very different here from your usual targetted campaign agaisnta single target, we're talking about something so wide and with effects on nearly every single person that your little anology just will not work no matter how hard you squeeze it.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Sorry garf doesn't have to work like that. We're on about something very different here from your usual targetted campaign agaisnta single target, we're talking about something so wide and with effects on nearly every single person that your little anology just will not work no matter how hard you squeeze it.

so...

what...

will...

this...

achicvie...

how hard is it to understand...

 

[butchersapron]

and what precisely are they getting up and doing?

don't lets' fool ourselves into thinking this apologist action will do anything other than allow the status quo to remain presicely as i had been ad infinitum...

this is controlled dissent nothing more. it's a placibo for real action...

..and we're back to you making a fetish out of this one single action and ignoring any wider dynamic it may be part of or help in producing - and damning a whole range of other initiatives by extension. As i said above, that's not politics - it's just costless demunciation.

 

[butchersapron]

so...

what...

will...

this...

achicvie...

how hard is it to understand...

Garf if you can't get your head around changed times and the fact there's not an imperative to achive a definite quantifiable success from one single part of a wider whole then sorry, but you are drowning.

 

[butchersapron]

Yep, I was, genuinely. I gave my bank a right piece of my mind on Thursday ... to the point where I felt obliged to ring the woman back on Friday and apologise. I've been planning what to say to my MP as well, cos I feel particularly strongly about the pressure they put my bank under to take on all that fucking HBOS millstone.

Good stuff....process, all part of the process...

Was the poll tax movement born fully formed? Some would seem to think so.

 

[Bakunin]

and what precisely are they getting up and doing?

don't lets' fool ourselves into thinking this apologist action will do anything other than allow the status quo to remain presicely as i had been ad infinitum...

this is controlled dissent nothing more. it's a placibo for real action...

I think you'll find that quite a lot is being done, by groups such as Rising Tide, Climate Camp, Earth First!, Leave It In The Ground, the Green Party and a pretty broad spectrum of others. Direct action is being planned and carried out, lobbying is being done, conventional protest is also on the agenda. So there's plenty of 'real action' being done.

And I'm not saying that this particular action will do too much other than create a media spectacle and keep the pot boiling and in the public eye, but that's no bad thing if it does, IMHO. The credit crunch, leaving aside the obvious problems that it causes for people, is an ideal opportunity for activists to push the anti-capitalist agenda and do so in a variety of ways.

I was at the last Climate Camp down in Kent, for instance. Do you think that the powers that be spent a seven figure budget, with 1500 plod from 26 counties, just because they thought it would be a good wheeze to annoy some hippies? No, they did it because this is a movement that has real potential and is causing the multi-nationals and their backers some serious problems and they want to counter that.

 

[cesare]

Good stuff....process, all part of the process...

Was the poll tax movement bought fully formed? Some would seem to think so.

Yes, I said to the bank woman "have you got any bloody idea what would happen if everyone decided to phone up and complain? Have you got any idea what would happen if everyone decided to just start dealing in hard cash from now on? Have you got no bloody idea of the scale of loss of confidence in your business? Your business, cos that's what it is, a bloody business at the end of the day. Everyone in this country can sell their services/goods and deal in hard cash or barter. Do you get it? We don't actually need you" loudly

No I don't remember that the poll tax movment was planned and executed as such - it all just came togethjer because people weren't prepared to put up with it.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

..and we're back to you making a fetish out of this one single action and ignoring any wider dynamic it may be part of or help in producing - and damning a whole range of other initiatives by extension. As i said above, that's not politics - it's just costless demunciation.

Garf if you can't get your head around changed times and the fact there's not an imperative to achive a definite quantifiable success from one single part of a wider whole then sorry, but you are drowning.

and so what is this action a greater part of and what is that aim?

how can you expect people to hitch their sails to a cause if they don't know what that cause is....

general unrest isn't a cause...

 

[Jasef]

I was at the last Climate Camp down in Kent, for instance. Do you think that the powers that be spent a seven figure budget, with 1500 plod from 26 counties, just because they thought it would be a good wheeze to annoy some hippies? No, they did it because this is a movement that has real potential and is causing the multi-nationals and their backers some serious problems and they want to counter that.

Somehow I don't there will much being spent on plod for this operation....

 

[butchersapron]

and so what is this action a greater part of and what is that aim?

how can you expect people to hitch their sails to a cause if they don't know what that cause is....

general unrest isn't a cause...

So you just ask the same question again Drowning *and* floundering.

General unrest is 'a cause' as it goes? (not that you've bothered to define what characterisrics you'll allow other people to be concerned enough about to constitute a legitmate cause).

 

[durruti02]

Don't people understand things as part of a process anymore? Must every demo be perfect from inception to execution and be carried out by the right people? I've very little time for the climate rush wannabe MPs personally but...

100%

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

So you just ask the same question again Drowning *and* floundering.

General unrest is 'a cause' as it goes? (not that you've bothered to define what characterisrics you'll allow other people to be concerned enough about to constitute a legitmate cause).

because you are giving no further informaiton you've taken up the mantle explain what is achives or don't either way you've already proved this is a pointless demo on any level other than the esoteically sticking it to the man...

which let's face it is well a little childish...

well done you...

 

[durruti02]

don't lets' fool ourselves into thinking this apologist action will do anything other than allow the status quo to remain presicely as i had been ad infinitum...

this is controlled dissent nothing more. it's a placibo for real action...

.. which is?

 

[butchersapron]

because you are giving no further informaiton you've taken up the mantle explain what is achives or don't either way you've already proved this is a pointless demo on any level other than the esoteically sticking it to the man...

which let's face it is well a little childish...

well done you...

garf, if you operate on the basis of 'we'll provide the politics - how do we get 'the people' to listen to us' (as you clearly do) rather then one based on peoples self activity and their own collective identification of what their interests and needs are (and hence their poltics) then you're just not going to get my arguments.

 

[butchersapron]

I said it on another thread last week, but people are really going to have to learn how to relate to militant reformism in the coming period. Denunciation is nothing, it's not politics.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

garf, if you operate on the basis of 'we'll provide the politics - how do we get 'the people' to listen to us' (as you clearly do) rather then one based on peoples self activity and their own collective identification of what their interests and needs are (and hence their poltics) then you're just not going to get my arguments.

so other non involved people are verboten from asking and what is the associated poltics with this little venture then?

they are suppossed to show up and contribute regardless of the motivation of the action...

yeah that'll work real grass roots stuff here..

it's so secretive the cause behind the action that you can only know if you are given the secret knock...

pull the other one...

this is a protest for the sake of showing off, ie look at me being all rebellious...

no cause no effect...

it's incredeably simple...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I said it on another thread last week, but people are really going to have to learn how to relate to militant reformism in the coming period. Denunciation is nothing, it's not politics.

and how the hell are they supposed to do that when they ask what cause is this in support of and they are told work it out for yourself or do something else...

very grass roots...

 

[butchersapron]

No garf, not interested. Not interested at all.

 

[Bakunin]

so other non involved people are verboten from asking and what is the associated poltics with this little venture then?

they are suppossed to show up and contribute regardless of the motivation of the action...

yeah that'll work real grass roots stuff here..

it's so secretive the cause behind the action that you can only know if you are given the secret knock...

pull the other one...

this is a protest for the sake of showing off, ie look at me being all rebellious...

no cause no effect...

it's incredeably simple...

Are you going to present a coherent and rational criticism of this action some time today?

There's nothing secretive or verboten about it. It's simply one action among many actions, planned and executed by many different groups around the issues of the current economic crisis and the environment. It's really not that hard to follow.

If you want to know what's motivating the action and the people involved, then why don't you just drop them an email or a phone call and ask? It's not a secret or closed action, so there shouldn't be any problem with the people behind it giving you the info you want.

 

[Herbert Read]

I think Garf is trolling.

 

[cesare]

Encouragement, Garf, encouragement. You've just spent a huge amount of time doing this yourself. Same principle.

 

[brasicritique]

So we can look forward to whatever alternatives you, and whoever you work with, have to offer then, can we?

If you don't have anything better to offer, then why sneer and snipe at those who actually get up and do something, pray tell?

you mean you want me to tactically analyse this stupidity? ok then well by now the bank knows its going to be rushed and will have taken counter measures so hows that for starters

Then we have the question of who exactly this act is meant to appeal to ?

IMO if you all really wanted to do somthing to raise your political profile and get some street cred then why not rush the house of fred the shred and shred his house ?why not taregt the spefific individuals responsible for this crisis? No instead you and your snobish friends will just stick to getting slapped by the police while attacking what are basically 'abstract institutions'
The act of rushing the bank is a purely symbolic act for media lenses with no real political or practical outcome

 

[brasicritique]

I think Garf is trolling.

or maybe your using the issue of trolling to stifle debate

 

[editor]

In the same way other stunts try to - by gettting public attention, directly or via the media, and making people aware that others feel the same way as them in the hope of moving onto the next step... it's not rocket science.

Indeed. The more attention such massive pension payouts get, the more unacceptable and unpalatable they become to the public. And public opinion has, on occasion, been known to influence things.

 

[Bakunin]

you mean you want me to tactically analyse this stupidity? ok then well by now the bank knows its going to be rushed and will have taken counter measures so hows that for starters

Then we have the question of who exactly this act is meant to appeal to ?

IMO if you all really wanted to do somthing to raise your political profile and get some street cred then why not rush the house of fred the shred and shred his house ?why not taregt the spefific individuals responsible for this crisis? No instead you and your snobish friends will just stick to getting slapped by the police while attacking what are basically 'abstract institutions'
The act of rushing the bank is a purely symbolic act for media lenses with no real political or practical outcome

Like I've said before, for the benefit of the hard of thinking, nobody is saying that this is going to be an action aimed at bringing about world revolution or anything that would be truly abstract at this particular point. It's aimed at highlighting the co-existence between big business, environmental destruction and the naked profiteering of those most responsible for the mess we currently find ourselves in. As such, it'll do that perfectly well if the success of the last Climate Rush at the UK Coal Awards is anything to go by. It's not a rallying call for global revolution, it's a stunt aimed at keeping the media pot boiling and it'll do that just fine. There's your 'practical outcome.' And, if it causes people to join up and take further action, then there's your 'political outcome' as well.

There's nothing wrong with the occasional symbolic action, as long as it's not used as a substitute for more assertive forms of action, especially if you want attention from the media which I'd say this is what this action is about. As a part of an overall strategy it sits OK with me, while it's certainly not the be all and end all, it'll do as a consciousness raiser while other, more assertive forms of action are in the pipeline.

 

[the button]

I did some "Justice4Cleaners" stuff outside this very RBS, so just a practical/logistical issue....

Because it's on a normal street with a normal-sized pavement (with a bus-stop directly outside), rather than on a "plaza" (like a lot of other banks in the City), it's a very easy location for the OB to move you on from for "obstruction."

No idea how this action is going to play itself out, like. But milling around outside will just get you moved on. The way that J4C negotiated this was to stand in an orderly line along the edge of the pavement. Not unlike people queueing for a bus. Except blowing whistles and leafletting passers-by.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

This whole idea that there's no point to a protest unless it's (a) ideologically pure and (b) will have a tangible result right there and then is pretty depressing. I keep hearing the Iraq war marches referred to in that way - "oh a million on the streets and it still went ahead, so what's the point in this?" No shit it went ahead; they were prepared to fuck off their own party, friendly governments, the UN, and also kill as many Iraqis as it took, and they're going to suddenly change their minds because of a march?

 

[durruti02]

^^^