Rumsfeld standing down
- Thread starter Nemo
- Start date
Sasaferrato said:
It should have happened years ago. I mean back in Nixon's time.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
zed said:
Indeed.
I suspect if this was a presidential election - Bush would still have won.
exosculate said:
FFS, even Montana voted Democrat. Bush would have been trounced if he'd been standing for election yesterday.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
Nemo said:
I don't, these elections are more like British Local Council elections, although obviously more important, nonetheless thay get protest votes yes and refusenik protest non-votes too. The presidential election is more like the General Election where the hardcore can be brought out regardless.
Guarantee it will be a Republican president elected next. More so if Hilary gets the Democratic Party nomination.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
That aside, what difference does one right winger going and being replaced by another right winger make? I mean it hardly makes a difference if a Democrat president gets elected, so surely this makes no difference at all?
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
If Bush had fired Rumsfeld three months ago, it might just have saved him the House. Is the senate Virginia result in yet?
No greater love than this, to sacrifice your friends for your life. Bush did this to save his own face. It will be interesting to see if there is any way the Americans can get out of Iraq without it looking like another Vietnam.
Sas we will have to wait until 27 November for the end of the inquiry into the voting.
Sas we will have to wait until 27 November for the end of the inquiry into the voting.
editor
hiraethified
Shreddy
Truth Through Character
Lock&Light said:
Another reason I prefer the parliamentary system. Had it been one, the whole fucking thing would've been a massive vote of non-confidence, the streets and back rooms of DC would be deserted, everybody sent home, and they'd be heading into a full-on 'clean-the-fucking-house' election in two months time. Thus ending America's (and the world's) entire sorid nightmare...
david dissadent
New Member
Hmm he should get along with Bush.....
Youd need to read the lot but it does seem he was willing to make himself wilfully blind about Norths illegal arms shipments to the contra's of off illegal profits on its arms shipments to Iran. Specificaly HAWK missiles. IIRC Iran fitted those out to use as long range missiles on its Tomcats replacing there Phoenixes.
With people like Negropointe, a man who was very closely associated with Central American death squads from his time as ambassador to (Gods brain blank was it Hondurus?) and Henry Kissenger back in favour in Washington, the ressurection of this Reaganite fossil does not seem out of place. A man happy to not see what he should not, and to veiw law as a transitory restraint on the needs of America, whether United Fruit Company in Central America or perhaps Bechtel in the new Middle East.
He seems a man willing to aquiece to the Negropointe initiated 'Salvador' option in Iraq in increasingly relying on death squads to hunt down enemies. This is how the special police comando were created from Badr Corps groups in c. 2004 that led to the tit for tat murder gangs (well tit for tat is a wrong way to express it, they just go for each other irrespective now a days not in reprisal) that rule Baghdad and so on.
But I dont see the Senate accepting him. I could be wrong, but he is too willing to give way to what he does not want to see. As suspected this reeks of being deck chair rearranging.
Although that is selective quoting as he was saying that to get out of a conviction.
Youd need to read the lot but it does seem he was willing to make himself wilfully blind about Norths illegal arms shipments to the contra's of off illegal profits on its arms shipments to Iran. Specificaly HAWK missiles. IIRC Iran fitted those out to use as long range missiles on its Tomcats replacing there Phoenixes.
http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_16.htm
With people like Negropointe, a man who was very closely associated with Central American death squads from his time as ambassador to (Gods brain blank was it Hondurus?) and Henry Kissenger back in favour in Washington, the ressurection of this Reaganite fossil does not seem out of place. A man happy to not see what he should not, and to veiw law as a transitory restraint on the needs of America, whether United Fruit Company in Central America or perhaps Bechtel in the new Middle East.
He seems a man willing to aquiece to the Negropointe initiated 'Salvador' option in Iraq in increasingly relying on death squads to hunt down enemies. This is how the special police comando were created from Badr Corps groups in c. 2004 that led to the tit for tat murder gangs (well tit for tat is a wrong way to express it, they just go for each other irrespective now a days not in reprisal) that rule Baghdad and so on.
But I dont see the Senate accepting him. I could be wrong, but he is too willing to give way to what he does not want to see. As suspected this reeks of being deck chair rearranging.
Robert Gates, a Cautious Player from a Past Team
His links with Iran-Contra are not good at all, I agree.
But the NYT is surprisingly positive about him this morning:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/09/washington/09gates.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
His links with Iran-Contra are not good at all, I agree.
But the NYT is surprisingly positive about him this morning:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/09/washington/09gates.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
He's going to be a much quieter pair of hands by the looks of things. The Democrats may not object overly.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Rumsfeld leaving isn't going to make a lot of difference, is it - it's still going to project an impose imperial power as is its want.
If the diff bewtween Democrats's and Republican's is the diff between Pepsi and Coke, then the diff between Rumsfeld and Gates is the diff between Pepsi and Diet Pepsi.
It's really just a clearing of the most awkward problems - for Republicans - in the 2008 Presidential election contest.
If the diff bewtween Democrats's and Republican's is the diff between Pepsi and Coke, then the diff between Rumsfeld and Gates is the diff between Pepsi and Diet Pepsi.
It's really just a clearing of the most awkward problems - for Republicans - in the 2008 Presidential election contest.
The trouble is that the Senate conventionally allows the President to nominate who he likes, unless the nominee is a completely unacceptable whack job in their eyes. Don't see that happening with Gates. But I am very glad Rumsfeld is out.
They are much more important than that. There's no precise equivalent, but it's basically now like Blair trying to govern with a minority of Labour MPs in Parliament - if those Labour MPs didn't depend on Blair for advancement in their political careers.
They are much more important than that. There's no precise equivalent, but it's basically now like Blair trying to govern with a minority of Labour MPs in Parliament - if those Labour MPs didn't depend on Blair for advancement in their political careers.
punkrockfaggot
>Squat this space
If I lived under the 2nd ammendment... I'd send him a present in the post.
A revolver, and a single bullet.
A revolver, and a single bullet.
Badger Kitten
oof
Have we had Rumsfeld quotes yet?
Memorable Quotes by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
"I would not say that the future is necessarily less predictable than the past. I think the past was not predictable when it started."
"We do know of certain knowledge that he [Osama Bin Laden] is either in Afghanistan, or in some other country, or dead."
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." –on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction
"Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war."
"Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things." –on looting in Iraq after the U.S. invasion, adding "stuff happens"
"As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."
"I am not going to give you a number for it because it's not my business to do intelligent work." -asked to estimate the number of Iraqi insurgents while testifying before Congress
"I believe what I said yesterday. I don't know what I said, but I know what I think, and, well, I assume it's what I said."
"Needless to say, the President is correct. Whatever it was he said."
"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."
"If I said yes, that would then suggest that that might be the only place where it might be done which would not be accurate, necessarily accurate. It might also not be inaccurate, but I'm disinclined to mislead anyone."
"There's another way to phrase that and that is that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. It is basically saying the same thing in a different way. Simply because you do not have evidence that something does exist does not mean that you have evidence that it doesn't exist." -on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction
"It is unknowable how long that conflict [the war in Iraq] will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months." -in Feb. 2003
"Well, um, you know, something's neither good nor bad but thinking makes it so, I suppose, as Shakespeare said."
"Secretary Powell and I agree on every single issue that has ever been before this administration except for those instances where Colin's still learning."
"Learn to say 'I don't know.' If used when appropriate, it will be often."
"I don't know what the facts are but somebody's certainly going to sit down with him and find out what he knows that they may not know, and make sure he knows what they know that he may not know."
"I'm not into this detail stuff. I'm more concepty."
"I don't do quagmires."
"I don't do diplomacy."
"I don't do foreign policy."
"I don't do predictions."
"I don't do numbers."
"I don't do book reviews."
"Now, settle down, settle down. Hell, I'm an old man, it's early in the morning and I'm gathering my thoughts here."
"If I know the answer I'll tell you the answer, and if I don't, I'll just respond, cleverly."
Memorable Quotes by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld
"I would not say that the future is necessarily less predictable than the past. I think the past was not predictable when it started."
"We do know of certain knowledge that he [Osama Bin Laden] is either in Afghanistan, or in some other country, or dead."
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." –on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction
"Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war."
"Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things." –on looting in Iraq after the U.S. invasion, adding "stuff happens"
"As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."
"I am not going to give you a number for it because it's not my business to do intelligent work." -asked to estimate the number of Iraqi insurgents while testifying before Congress
"I believe what I said yesterday. I don't know what I said, but I know what I think, and, well, I assume it's what I said."
"Needless to say, the President is correct. Whatever it was he said."
"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."
"If I said yes, that would then suggest that that might be the only place where it might be done which would not be accurate, necessarily accurate. It might also not be inaccurate, but I'm disinclined to mislead anyone."
"There's another way to phrase that and that is that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. It is basically saying the same thing in a different way. Simply because you do not have evidence that something does exist does not mean that you have evidence that it doesn't exist." -on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction
"It is unknowable how long that conflict [the war in Iraq] will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months." -in Feb. 2003
"Well, um, you know, something's neither good nor bad but thinking makes it so, I suppose, as Shakespeare said."
"Secretary Powell and I agree on every single issue that has ever been before this administration except for those instances where Colin's still learning."
"Learn to say 'I don't know.' If used when appropriate, it will be often."
"I don't know what the facts are but somebody's certainly going to sit down with him and find out what he knows that they may not know, and make sure he knows what they know that he may not know."
"I'm not into this detail stuff. I'm more concepty."
"I don't do quagmires."
"I don't do diplomacy."
"I don't do foreign policy."
"I don't do predictions."
"I don't do numbers."
"I don't do book reviews."
"Now, settle down, settle down. Hell, I'm an old man, it's early in the morning and I'm gathering my thoughts here."
"If I know the answer I'll tell you the answer, and if I don't, I'll just respond, cleverly."
Ozric
Getting older, one day at a time.
How about 'War Crimes Filed Against Donald Rumsfeld', I don't think they'll get him but I do recommend extraordinary rendition.
exosculate said:
How do you explain how Tuesday's turn-out was exceptionaly high?
How much more "hard-core" could have been brought out?
Badger Kitten said:
Far be it from me to defend the warmongering old fool, but this quote is often held up as an example of his bumbling stupidity whereas actually it makes a perfectly valid point.
In many walks of life there are things we don't know, but we are aware of them and trying to expand our knowledge of them: there are things we have no clue about - 'unknown unknowns,' if you like - which we can't even begin to understand because we don't know they're even there.
I'm sure someone out there could express it far more eloquently and concisely than Rummy (or me) but the basic point is valied - although exactly what context the point was made in I don't know.
I think it could have been funny if George W Bush had tried to say it though.
I think the departure of Rumsfeld could really signal a significant shift in US foreign policy, it's pretty clear that the Baker task force is looking for a way out of Iraq, including possibly talking to/working with Syria and Iran, a remarkable turn around.
This really is excellent and could presage a major defeat for US imperialism. Completely vindicating btw those of us who recognised the need to support the Iraqi resistance.
For more analysis see here
http://www.permanentrevolution.net/?view=entry&entry=928
This really is excellent and could presage a major defeat for US imperialism. Completely vindicating btw those of us who recognised the need to support the Iraqi resistance.
For more analysis see here
http://www.permanentrevolution.net/?view=entry&entry=928
david dissadent
New Member
Like the death squads. What a nice fellow.fanciful said:
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