tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
So, regardless of the facts, you are basing you opinions on one game Utd were comprehensively out played by a great team in a game that no other British team were good enough to reach?
Ronaldo: Ferguson's tactics were shit
- Thread starter Relahni
- Start date
So, regardless of the facts, you are basing you opinions on one game Utd were comprehensively out played by a great team in a game that no other British team were good enough to reach?
What a fucking tool you are, an out and out cock end of magananamous proportions.
This is the same manager that beat Barcelona last season - we didnt hear a peep out of them, theres not much between the top teams and any game can go either way, but lets ignore that fact to spout bollocks.
tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
Tactically, where did he go wrong do you think?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Only had one plan, believed all the stuff about Barcas weak defence, but then forgot about the importance of actually attacking that defence. Fuck all idea about midfield, far far too dependent on the long diagonal up to Rooney.
e2a: getting someone to actually attempt a tackle on iniesta or messi would have been quite useful as well
e2a: getting someone to actually attempt a tackle on iniesta or messi would have been quite useful as well
kained&able
Here for the football.
I'm not so sure fegie tactics were shit.
Lack of a defensive midfielder didn't help but other then o'shea at a real push, they simply dont have one at the moment.
I think vidic epseically but rio as well looked nervous, which kind made the midfielders need to drop back to help a bit too much, which meant they were having to knock long balls all over the place, which weren't coming off. Which meant fowards couldn't really get into the game and created a space for either xavi or iniesta to play in. It also allowed pique to carry the ball out of defence a bit too often.
Ronlado was the only player in a man unied shirt that had anything close to a good game. Iniesta, pique, xavi, messi and henry(in that order) all had good games everyone else was decent and didn't make any big mistakes.
dave
Lack of a defensive midfielder didn't help but other then o'shea at a real push, they simply dont have one at the moment.
I think vidic epseically but rio as well looked nervous, which kind made the midfielders need to drop back to help a bit too much, which meant they were having to knock long balls all over the place, which weren't coming off. Which meant fowards couldn't really get into the game and created a space for either xavi or iniesta to play in. It also allowed pique to carry the ball out of defence a bit too often.
Ronlado was the only player in a man unied shirt that had anything close to a good game. Iniesta, pique, xavi, messi and henry(in that order) all had good games everyone else was decent and didn't make any big mistakes.
dave
tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
So the tactics should have been tackle Messi and attack without playing diagonal balls...anything else specifically?
tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
This, I think, is closer to the mark. Less about our poor tactics and more about Barca outplaying us in Midfield.
I am not sure the tactics of 3 sitting so deep in midfield worked for us however. Anderson and Giggs needed to break more out allow our attacks to be more fluid. They sat deep leading to the diagonal cross field pass as a last resort. Thy sat deep though because they were dominated and looked nervous of Ineista and Messi...with good reason it seems.
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Have a group of players who can pass a ball to feet and control it without having to break stride or as was seen in lots of cases last night, stop dead and look for the next pass. Uniteds passing range last night was shocking.
Oh, and Rooney - a big bruisey bumper, on the left? Yeah right. The reason Puyol and Eto'o took the piss is because there wasn't anyone to commit them to their position. Play him up front with Tevez and put some serious pressure on Toure and their other defender lad. Ronaldo should have pissed over Puyol, but didn't get the chance.....
Oh, and Rooney - a big bruisey bumper, on the left? Yeah right. The reason Puyol and Eto'o took the piss is because there wasn't anyone to commit them to their position. Play him up front with Tevez and put some serious pressure on Toure and their other defender lad. Ronaldo should have pissed over Puyol, but didn't get the chance.....
Well, Ferguson did play Giggs in midfield.
Giggs was player of the year you know.
Another great performance by him. Surprised he didn't get man of the match.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
Well, Ferguson did play Giggs in midfield.
Giggs was player of the year you know.
Another great performance by him. Surprised he didn't get man of the match.
Giggs did indeed have a shocker.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Barca were better side - Ferguson
Everything went wrong - Ronaldo
We controlled it - Guardiola
. . all from the BBC website. What do all of those headlines imply? A tactical disaster.
And Barca were playing a reserve back 4. A reserve back 4.
Everything went wrong - Ronaldo
We controlled it - Guardiola
. . all from the BBC website. What do all of those headlines imply? A tactical disaster.
And Barca were playing a reserve back 4. A reserve back 4.
tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
I am still unclear though what you would have done differently to create this shorter range of passing...which I agree was the fundemental problem with the way we played.
I am asking not because I am saying you are wrong but because I don't know - that is why I think it was less about tactics and more about being outplayed.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
It doesn't make sense asking someone on the Interent how to play a CL final, FFS.
It's enough to know it went very badly wrong.
It's enough to know it went very badly wrong.
tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
Being outplayed is down to a number of things...not just tactics. At no stage have you given any actual tactical thoughts at all on this thread...just bland observations. Exactly where did Fergie go wrong with his tactics and where in all these other top class games your are referring to has be gone wrong to you think?
internetstalker
Get naked!
Some of you are idiots
Man U lose a final and suddenly Furguson is naive tactically and only successful coz he's spent money on players!?
WTF?
are you seriously that stupid?
How about this. Man U lost coz they were outplayed by the better team!
Furgusons record speaks for itself and to read some of the bitter tripe on this thread jut confirms some of you haven't a scooby about what your talking about!
Man U lose a final and suddenly Furguson is naive tactically and only successful coz he's spent money on players!?
WTF?
are you seriously that stupid?
How about this. Man U lost coz they were outplayed by the better team!
Furgusons record speaks for itself and to read some of the bitter tripe on this thread jut confirms some of you haven't a scooby about what your talking about!
tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
No it's not. You referred specifically to Fergies tactical abilities - suggesting you actually had some thoughts on them...but actually you don't.
g force
Affects Shatner's Basoon
No we weren't...Puyol is club captain (albeit on his way out) and Pique is a first choice CB. We rotate one or other of them with Marquez (who is shit) and Abidal.
I actually think not having Alves helped us - we held our line much better without a defender permanently in the opposition half.
Gmart
Well-Known Member
Man U, along with most UK football teams is unable to keep the ball sufficiently. Barca are superb at this and nearly ALL their players are much happier in possession, always with a pass available, and they showed the flaw in the 'closing them down quickly' game that typifies the UK.
The tactics were flawed, but the players weren't there to use. Man U doesn't have a decent striker really. At best they could have started with Berbatov and Tevez, but Carrick is a great passer of the ball but not quite dynamic enough for the highest level (yet?). Scholes and Giggs showed their age and Ronaldo can't do it on his own.
All in all they were unable to keep the ball and pass round Barca. The best team won and there was no hint of a comeback really.
The tactics were flawed, but the players weren't there to use. Man U doesn't have a decent striker really. At best they could have started with Berbatov and Tevez, but Carrick is a great passer of the ball but not quite dynamic enough for the highest level (yet?). Scholes and Giggs showed their age and Ronaldo can't do it on his own.
All in all they were unable to keep the ball and pass round Barca. The best team won and there was no hint of a comeback really.
tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
Also thought Sylvinho had good game, worked well with Henry, looked sharp and good on the ball.
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
Playing the players who are most effective in their most effective position will naturally enhance your passing range. Ronaldo looked toothless without some space to use. Rooney looked isolated out on the left, and couldn't work effectively with Evra out there.
Andreson was bobbins from the start - Carrick didn't have the ball winning protection he needed to do his thing. So i'd have done this.
O'Bese in midfield, Rafael at right back working with Ronaldo down the right. Giggs on the left tucked in to let Evra run onto the ball. Tevez and Rooney up front battering away at that defence. Carrick still in midfield, and then bring on Anderson in the second half. Berbatov on in the second half and all to try and pick the lock if it hadn't been already.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
lol. Yup, the blind manu fans most notably
but why were they the better team? Or is it just not fair to ask that?
it was surely more about the drop in morale and belief once barca had scored which had more of an effect: similar to the man u v arsenal second leg, when arsenal had all the possession in the first 10 minutes, and man u scored from their first attack.
in both cases, it drained the belief that they could win, and they didn't really have much of a plan as to how to get out of it.
It also meant that barca could sit back and play the passes around midfield, without having the necessity to look for a goal immediately - which not only meant that man utd didn't have the ball (so couldn't get back into it), but meant that they were tiring chasing afte the ball for long periods. So when they did get it, they weren't quite as sharp to run for one another and create space.
in both cases, it drained the belief that they could win, and they didn't really have much of a plan as to how to get out of it.
It also meant that barca could sit back and play the passes around midfield, without having the necessity to look for a goal immediately - which not only meant that man utd didn't have the ball (so couldn't get back into it), but meant that they were tiring chasing afte the ball for long periods. So when they did get it, they weren't quite as sharp to run for one another and create space.
Dr. Furface
One small step for me
Forget the tactics (such as they were) - United's run of luck in the European Cup/Champs Lg final was bound to end sometime. Their last 2 wins were only achieved by a shattering last-gasp comeback against Bayern and John Terry's missed pen last season - on both occasions, United had been the inferior team. But thankfully last night justice was done and the superior team were so superior in every way that Fergie and his boys knew there could be no repeat of their previous nights of European 'glory' when they so undeservedly triumphed.
iROBOT
CURRENTLY RE-BOOTING
tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
I would liked to have seen that, particularly up the left hand side as I think Evra could have cause some problems. Having said that if we had played that way with Messi playing in the hole I think he would have torn us to shreds even more than he did. I think we neded players in the centre of the park breaking through, Scholes perhaps, Giggs was not the answer. I think the midfield set up was designed to contain Barca to allow of the couter attacks. Personally I like Ronaldo through the centre, he does provide a threat there but it relies of very good service otherwise he pulls wide - like Henry used to do - only works if there is a central midfield breaking to support. Last night the central midfield look lethargic.
I understand why Fergie played the way he did, worked in the Semi final and I was confident of his tactics before the game and it was what most pundits were predicting....so no complaints from me.
internetstalker
Get naked!
My point is losing one final doesn't make a manager naive and shit.lol. Yup, the blind manu fans most notably
but why were they the better team? Or is it just not fair to ask that?
IMO Furguson got his selection wrong, but 1 mistake doesn't mean he's a shit manager
some of these quotes below are just bollox simple as
tom_craggs
Well-Known Member
Please note, two ex Arsenal players....
(I'm clutching at strawsI know this...
)
Henry was really beginning to come into the game when he was subbed, O'Shea looked scared after being turned inside out - Henry should have finished off really.
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