Rock N Rolla?

[Sadken]

As it goes - and I'm not on a windup here - I reckon I could throw a stone into the street from my house and hit a working class person who waxes lyrical about when the Krays et al were running things in the east end. Seems like everyone in Romford has a tenuous family link to them - "Reg slept on my sofa one night" etc.

I'd say it'd be more at odds if he didn't think they were brill to be honest. Maybe that's cos of where I was brought up, I dunno...

 

[Idaho]

I think (fictional) gangsters are seen as the last preserve of unfettered maleness. I could go into interesting detail... but am not quite in the mood alas.

 

[tommers]

I think (fictional) gangsters are seen as the last preserve of unfettered maleness. I could go into interesting detail... but am not quite in the mood alas.

gutted.

 

[El Jefe]

As it goes - and I'm not on a windup here - I reckon I could throw a stone into the street from my house and hit a working class person who waxes lyrical about when the Krays et al were running things in the east end. Seems like everyone in Romford has a tenuous family link to them - "Reg slept on my sofa one night" etc.

I'd say it'd be more at odds if he didn't think they were brill to be honest. Maybe that's cos of where I was brought up, I dunno...

So you don't see a tension between having strong left wing / proworking class views and yet yearning for a time when gangsters were able to operate more freely?

Really?

 

[tarannau]

Nah, sadly I'd concur that there's still a lot of working class affection for the Krays in particular.

That said, it's generally the more elderly types who rabbit on like that. Often between misty eyed memories of there 'being no coons over here' and tales of when the 'paki' shop was a bookies/milk bar/knocking shop.

 

[Sadken]

So you don't see a tension between having strong left wing / proworking class views and yet yearning for a time when gangsters were able to operate more freely?

Really?

No, I do, absolutely, it's just that not everybody analyses every situation to the degree you do. Some people, plenty of people, are just accepting of things and might not view things from a socio-political-historical perspective but, rather, from their own perspective and how life around them has changed etc.

Don't forget that there's p-oo-lenty of working class people who don't have left wing leanings at all.

 

[tarannau]

Yep, more than a few Thatcherite white flight refugees in Essex . Working class solidarity didn't come into it.

 

[El Jefe]

Don't forget that there's p-oo-lenty of working class people who don't have left wing leanings at all.

Except I was explicitly referring to trevhagl, not anyone else. So your posts are fairly redundant.

 

[El Jefe]

Nah, sadly I'd concur that there's still a lot of working class affection for the Krays in particular.

Again, all of my posts have been explicitly about trevhagl, nobody else.

 

[chico enrico]

He actually made a reference to the good old days before a police state or words to that effect when gangsters could go about their business, and made it clear he saw this as a good thing.

i think that sounds like a good thing. if the cops didn't interfere maybe that may save folk from getting shot in crossfire etc.

 

[rapattaque]

Luv the Guardian review.

It was amusing... but such an easy target!

 

[El Jefe]

i think that sounds like a good thing. if the cops didn't interfere maybe that may save folk from getting shot in crossfire etc.

But gangs quite clearly make their money out of exploiting the poor.

Crossfires don't come into it, vicious gangland bullying of the working class does.

 

[DotCommunist]

Lets not get misty eyed here, they were and are parasites.

 

[El Jefe]

Lets not get misty eyed here, they were and are parasites.

Exactly, hence my view that to pine for halycon days when vicious criminal scumbags could operate more easily cannot possibly be consistent with a left-wing viewpoint.

 

[Sadken]

Except I was explicitly referring to trevhagl, not anyone else. So your posts are fairly redundant.

Incidentally, I reckon it's the way you immediately get defensive and snipey when challenged which makes so many people dislike you and accuse you of being arrogant. I also think it's what means you'll never be anywhere near as clever as you reckon you are. That's an objective assessment, by the way

 

[El Jefe]

Incidentally, I reckon it's the way you immediately get defensive and snipey when challenged which makes so many people dislike you and accuse you of being arrogant. I also think it's what means you'll never be anywhere near as clever as you reckon you are. That's an objective assessment, by the way

Fantastic stuff, but not at all relevant to the point I was making

 

[Sadken]

Lets not get misty eyed here, they were and are parasites.

Nobody is saying they aren't. Jefe is saying that you can't be working class or pro working class and pro Krays which is patently untrue.

 

[El Jefe]

Nobody is saying they aren't. Jefe is saying that you can't be working class or pro working class and pro Krays which is patently untrue.

Please show me where I say you can't be working class and pro-Krays

 

[Sadken]

Fantastic stuff, but not at all relevant to the point I was making

Oh, Jeffles, it's relevant to every point you make! Ever!

 

[Sadken]

So you don't see a tension between having strong left wing / proworking class views and yet yearning for a time when gangsters were able to operate more freely?

Really?

Here.

 

[tarannau]

Exactly, hence my view that to pine for halycon days when vicious criminal scumbags could operate more easily cannot possibly be consistent with a left-wing viewpoint.

You don't expect old Trevhagi to be anything approaching consistent do you? He likes reading about supposed working class hard men and projecting.

 

[El Jefe]

Oh, Jeffles, it's relevant to every point you make! Ever!

Your attempts to broaden this out to cover your general antipathy don't actually alter the fact that your posts re: the working classes and gangsters in general were not at all relevant to my specific comments to trevhagl.

 

[Sadken]

Of course you like it, Trev. No surprise there.

Because you somehow see no contradiction in being some kind of class-conscious warrior of the left and yet also someone who pines for the good old days (pre-Big Brother / nanny state) when gangsters ruled London exploiting the working class and loving their dear old mums.

IE, you're a moron.

Also said it quite explicitly here.

 

[Sadken]

He actually made a reference to the good old days before a police state or words to that effect when gangsters could go about their business, and made it clear he saw this as a good thing.

Which sits rather at odds with his professed working class leanings.

Oops! You did it again!

 

[rapattaque]

Please show me where I say you can't be working class and pro-Krays

The internet is fucking brilliant. Where on earth would I hear someone say that in real life?!!!

 

[El Jefe]

Dear oh dear ken.

all the quotes you've provided refer to being leftist / pro working class. At no point did i say you can't be working class and be pro-Krays.

I'm afraid you've rather fucked this up, which must be quite embarassing for you because it was you trying to catch me out

 

[Sadken]

Dear oh dear ken.

all the quotes you've provided refer to being leftist / pro working class. At no point did i say you can't be working class and be pro-Krays.

I'm afraid you've rather fucked this up, which must be quite embarassing for you because it was you trying to catch me out

Mmmmhmm, yep, it is! I'm so embarrassed, all my hair has fallen out!


It's the same fucking thing, you loon! Are you allergic to saying "hands up, fair enough, I did say that..." or even "Yeah, you're right, it does look like that but what I meant was..." or what?

 

[El Jefe]

It's the same fucking thing, you loon! Are you allergic to saying "hands up, fair enough, I did say that..." or even "Yeah, you're right, it does look like that but what I meant was..." or what?

You think that being working class is the same thing as being leftist / class warrior / etc, all the things i referred to Trev as?

You're funny

you know some working class people vote Tory right?

 

[rutabowa]

Mmmmhmm, yep, it is! I'm so embarrassed, all my hair has fallen out!


It's the same fucking thing, you loon! Are you allergic to saying "hands up, fair enough, I did say that..." or even "Yeah, you're right, it does look like that but what I meant was..." or what?

I am afraid yr wrong on this one

 

[El Jefe]

I am afraid yr wrong on this one

it's pretty self-evident, I'd have thought.

Ken has clearly stated that being leftist / class conscious / pro working class is the SAME THING as being working class.

oops